City of London Girls withdrawing offers

Carltonscroop - interviews followed the exam. Only a successful (and tricky) interview resulted in an offer following a satisfactory examination result initially. Not all girls make it to interview/audition and not all interviewees are offered a place. So it is more than just the exam result that counts. There really is no need for anyone to 'dash across London' on the basis that paperwork could be completed by email and deposits paid by bank transfer.

"At the end of the day if you were admissions at the city would you want your school to be 3rd, 4th or 5th choice for your students it would you prefer to operate as first come first served to those who seriously consider you their first choice?"

I would want to have the pupils who I thought would do well in the school. And I''d have people who had thought about it, and made a considered decision between offers, rather than assuming that people who respond quickly are doing so from choice rather than The Fear imposed by this (unusual and not nice) system.

Why can't they just do normal admissions? Other schools seem to do OK with that. Still stressful, but better than this. Not really an attractive USP, is it?

"There’s so much uproar here about clsg putting the girls through hell, but what about putting your child through a hard interview when you as the parent know you’re not that bothered but just want to hedge your bets?"

If you sit for a prudent 3 or 4, then why on earth wouidn't you want to be able to choose from your actual offers? Place at school X or schoarshipmat school,Y? Not easy choices, surely?

I don't think those who have a clear preference really get the need for others to mull it over. But nearly every school does get it, which is why you get a couple of week's thinking time until a deadline, and certainty that you can use that time if you need to. Not what seems to be an entry ticket into a direct stampede to the school.

(How much point is there is interviewing girls, when it's going to boil down to exam result and parental willingness to dash across London within a few hours of notification arriving?)

At the end of the day if you were admissions at the city would you want your school to be 3rd, 4th or 5th choice for your students it would you prefer to operate as first come first served to those who seriously consider you their first choice? It’s deeply unfair to suggest that accepting clsg quickly implies that girls weren’t smart enough to be holding multiple offers. As the only top tier independent girls school easily accessible to east London for many CLSG is the first choice above many others in London. Not all private school parents live in Hampstead or Islington.

HAHA1234 - both schools are excellent. One school required us to move house. The other didn't.

user8957365 - I assume your comment is directed at me. No justification, I don't have a say in how City is run. Nor am I a fan of exploding offers. I am however, in the spirit of debate, justified in challenging statements which are just wrong about either the Calibre of students accepted as a result of exploding offers or the school itself by parents whose children do not currently attend it.

Pradaqueen, I understand you will defend any school your DD got in. It seems somewhere ... I read that you said SPGS is what you want for your DD . Unfortunately.......

Its such a shame for the 10/11 year old girls whose offers have been withdrawn ....doesn't actually show them how to treat people fairly does it? There are various ways the school could address this issue without exposing children to this cut throat process at such a young age. It doesnt really matter what the school tell parents when they send out the letters - the fact is they are dealing with 10/11 year old children just about to start on what will be a fundamental part of their future.

The thing that frustrates me is I do t understand why parents are putting their children through what can be a highly stressful application process with multiple steps if they’re not serious about the school or don’t have any idea what their preferences are. There’s so much uproar here about clsg putting the girls through hell, but what about putting your child through a hard interview when you as the parent know you’re not that bothered but just want to hedge your bets?

Yes I’m a CLSG parent but I accepted very quickly. CLSG were always my first choice and I know someone who had turned down 8 schools this week in favour of the CLSG offer they accepted first thing on Monday... including SPGS

Channing is just as bad, frankly. As one of the Consortium schools that is trying to eradicate tutoring for the 2019 intake - for which I salute them - I think it's pretty bad they lower themselves in this way. I can't imagine their Consortium partners are impressed at all.

Channing will be a nightmare next year. They have 2 classes coming up from the Prep so a much reduced intake at 11+. Expect to see their list close very quickly indeed, and with it the goodwill of many locals.

user8957365 - many possible reasons SPGS was turned down I guess... lack of scholarship? Fees? Commute if you don't live in west London? Or very possibly, Clarissa Farr leaving and being replaced by the ex-head of City Boys who in turn had only been in that post for two years. Deciding between two or three top ten schools is not exactly 'Hobson's Choice'

Can we not let Channing off the hook here? Less sought after perhaps but their offers rescinded yesterday.

We’d intended to go to offers morning anyway assuming there would be some wriggle room, but they’ve cancelled it.

Keepcalmteach - I am saying that versus Grammar schools non-academic prowess is definitely a consideration. And yes, I do know of at least one child who rejected SPGS and several in my DD's year who rejected NLCS. Not everyone wants rolling fields and a gothic building for their child. Sometimes proximity to home/office etc is important What I did encounter at City on the open days (and other visits) above all else were teachers who were genuinely encouraging and excited about their subjects. The music department however is exceptional and from what I can see the standard and opportunity to participate at all levels, outstanding.

Saw this thread in today’s evening standard!

Formally, they are right. They did say "first come, first serve", so 9 hours or 30 seconds don't make a difference here.
Ethically, this is wrong. Professionally, it's a mess.
All they needed to do is analyse statistical data and make an appropriate number of offers - like any other self-respecting school does.
They chose to hedge their bets, alienate a lot of people and stain their reputation (and end up in Evening Standard). If they want to be compared to RyanAir - fine, their choice and their right. But big mistake.

And no callous telling people to cancel their holiday they had looked forward to for months occurred. All the literature makes clear how offers work. Most people start looking at schools in Yr4 or early in Yr5. This will have given well over 18 months to appreciate the date of offers and make plans to get the deposits in - as people have said, electronic was fine. Lots might have gone in person, but lots will also have sent the money and forms electronically.

Only people who didn't read the literature or seriously consider the impact of offers only existing until places were full, would suddenly find themselves having to make a last minute arrangement that is talked of here. City did not spring the system on unsuspecting parents part way through the process. It was always there and by applying, they were agreeing to it. There weren't a load of protests about it back then.

The AntiBoop. Good luck with your DS. I would say though, that have found no arrogance at City at all. Quite the reverse. However, it is not the right place for Parents used to a high level of instantaneous contact with their child's school. They encourage independence very early on from the girls and as a result, outside of very serious issues, girls are expected to deal with lost kit/forgot my homework/teaching/what do I need for this trip queries for themselves. It is really quite liberating for Parents.

All schools over offer, yet they do not all resort to exploding offers. Like I said, top academic schools like GL, LU, StP, FH do not do that.

There are schools that are just as popular - if not more popular- than City, yet they manage to stick to the fixed deadline.

This is a case of clear mismanagement on City behalf. I would not trust a school that treats it's "clients" so unprofessionally so early on.

I'm sure City isn't the back up choice for most of the girls currently in the school. They accepted offers either before the exploding offers system or since it, precisely because it was their first choice. They are popular and rarely if ever will have to go to WL. WL is less the problem than the risk of bulge classes, given the severely restricted site. That site is different to most Lomdon schools.

So, most of the girls (70 per year) have it as top choice, but when 800 apply, large numbers don't. The geographical location makes it a possibility if not the best location for many, and inthis age of people wanting several back ups, it's easy to see that its reputation and fact it could be travelled to (albeit in a nightmarish fashion for many of those people using it as a back up) lead to many applying, who will only accept a place if they don't get their higher preferences. But the school don't know whose those people are - are if not able to over offer by very much at all due to the risk of a bulge class, they could give most of their offers to people who don't want to come. It's a reality, which is minimised as a problem by over offering, because then more of the people given offers will be true first choice people who will accept. However, the only way to over offer to the extent needed and to avoid a bulge class is by using exploding offers. The EasyJet analogy is a good one. Bargain prices are offered from a given start date, but once the seats sold at that price reach their limit, the offer is no longer there.

Is it morally wrong to make offers which are then withdrawn or exploded? I can't see why it's wrong if it's made clear that this can happen. Would people prefer if City didn't use the word 'offer' and instead sent letters saying the candidates had 'qualified' and now could reserve their place by paying the deposit - first come, first served? Is it the word 'offer' that is problematic? I agree that usually offers aren't rescinded for other things.

Your point 6 keeps getting raised but clsg isn't unique at all in this fact

Ive got all this to come in a few years (currently going through the boys system which has different stressors!) but I'm coming away from this thread feeling there is an overwhelming sense of arrogance from clsg

Also I’m not buying a house or trying to get a bargain in the sales. These are transactions where buyers and sellers don’t care about each other and are literally just trying to effect a one off transaction. This is an organisation I’ll be having a 5-7 year relationship with where hopefully we will be collaborative and work together. It’s a business transaction but it’s also an ongoing relationship. I would never treat customers in my business this way. It would damage the relationship of trust between us.