Teachers to be replaced by apps

Boneyback I see what you mean now. Yes that makes sense.

The DfE is looking like it might shut down the FMSP

That'll work out well for children in Grammar Schools - narrows down the competition for Uni places.

liloland

My point is that these apps only have value if the pupils/students want to do the subject and have the drive and goals to persevere with the work.

Giving a secondary school pupil an app and saying get on with it will only work for those that want to do it.

The other pupils will need to be coerced in to doing it.

Haven't read the whole thread - but has anyone mentioned the project to teach remedial maths to American university students via an online course?? The pass rates were significantly lower than similar students taking teacher lead courses...

It wasn't the whole university online, just a single remedial course...

Boneyback I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Obviously the choice to study for his specific A levels is his.
He is very good at maths. Further maths will support his university prospects. Without it he wil be at a disadvantage. His school doesn't offer it, so he studies online. He's not alone- there are plenty of other students online with him.

I’m not implying anything of the sort Julie, I promise! It is just the quick fire nature of your many questions whenever anyone posts seemed as if you were goading, so I apologise for getting that wrong. The irony of missing the tone and point of text on a screen is not lost on me with this thread!

In addition, my backstory is (and of course you weren’t to know this) is that over the years, I have seen many many new IT packages for education, made by people who have never set foot in a classroom, yet charge schools extortionate amounts to implement a software program that simply just doesn’t work to provide an all rounded education for our children, despite their claims. To use these alongside other methods is generally fine but once an organisation sees and promotes an opportunity to exploit a niche problem purely for financial gain and claim it will solve everything, then I just know it’s bull.

I am also sorry that I assumed you knew what a Text book was (a published book with information) as opposed to an Exercise book. I’ve genuinely never heard an Exercise book be referred to as anything else - it’s not just a 2018 thing.

KittyVonCatsington Seriously, your implying just shut up and believe what the 'teachers' say? I respect the expert views teachers on here give but I will not just stop asking questions/commenting, its a discussion forum.

As I am not a teacher I dont know what a teacher in 2018 calls the book that their students write text in. My apologies for calling it a text book.

Ffs
Current
Didactic input

Situp
There is also loads of research to suggest that the currebt push of getting students to research the answer for themselves is counter productive to learning and good old didayinput gives far better results,

Not at all, just exploring the idea as this is what the thread is about. You don’t seem to be taking in what every teacher is saying, just firing back, so will do the same.

I wonder how long it will be before secondary schools start to switch from text books to typing everything anyway. Like universities do.

Most schools don’t use text books now and haven’t for a long time due to funding but I’m not sure why using a text book means you have to hand write and not type anyway. As a few teachers upthread stated that typing actually doesn’t retain information as well as writing it down. I actually don’t set any homework that can be typed-I prefer it handwritten and have seen an increase in my GCSE and A Level results (hope for the same with the new 9-1) In direct contrast, our MFL dept has turned to platforms like Doddle, Duolearn and Memrise and has seen a vast drop in results (I find it frustrating to watch!) They are literally just a body in the room, watching their pupils on their accounts and the kids hate it (but hey, means no planning or marking so win win for teacher, but not so for pupil) We are getting a new Head of MFL next Term. Wonder if that is connected!?

I was reading over exam season that examiners would getting paid less for even more work. Do they really spend much more time deciphering bad hand writing? Of course in these cases a computer could easily refer any incomprehensible texts to a human. Yes, we do get about 50p per question but we do have integrity and at least try! Believe you me when I tell you just how universally bad a lot of handwriting is and that would be many many referrals-probably would negate any benefits including cost. In addition, unless the pupil has Dyspraxia or other relevant SEND, it worries me that some find a cop out route to not work on basic legible handwriting and instead permanently type.

I agree but imagine the benefits if it could work! Every pupil working at their own pace, at their own level on a course no one else is doing. Surly if done well it could be the opposite of 30 zombies all studying the exact same thing as exactly the same pace and exactly the level.

Couldn’t think of anything worse and would greatly fear for my own children’s future if that was the case. You seem to imagine this working with already self motivated kids who don’t like to converse, hear each other’s thoughts and opinions, hate variety, want to get RSI, don’t want to think for themselves, are mildly addicted to positive notifications/next level type progress/feedback and want to stare at a screen 24/7.

I promise you, the more I teach away from the computer, the better the outcomes overall for my students. There’s more to life than Google.

You seem very intent on going down the full tech route despite plenty of cons Not at all, just exploring the idea as this is what the thread is about.

It’s the obsession with learning cursive writing at Primary that can cause this, in my experience I wonder how long it will be before secondary schools start to switch from text books to typing everything anyway. Like universities do.

As an Examiner myself, you would take more time than a computer would, to try and read it I was reading over exam season that examiners would getting paid less for even more work. Do they really spend much more time deciphering bad hand writing? Of course in these cases a computer could easily refer any incomprehensible texts to a human.

I like to instill a bit of humanity into my classrooms and try not to produce a bunch of robotic zombies with qualifications I agree but imagine the benefits if it could work! Every pupil working at their own pace, at their own level on a course no one else is doing. Surly if done well it could be the opposite of 30 zombies all studying the exact same thing as exactly the same pace and exactly the same level?

As a parent of primary school children I hate to hear this, my DC used mymaths in yr3 and I hated it, they have now started with abacus any thoughts on this? It's so scary I don't know how to help them, my DC have amazing teachers I don't see how this can all be replicated online.

RafaIsTheKingOfClay

I feel like the potential for mischief when a bunch of 16 year olds try to push the boundaries of the AI tech is probably huge.

But the AI will just teach. It will be the poor sod in the classroom (whether they call them TAs or teachers) that have to do the crowd control.

While the consequences of allowing a neural network to apply ‘benefit of the doubt’ might be hilarious, I’m not sure it’s the sort of thing you’d want allocating you marks or giving you feedback.

I feel like the potential for mischief when a bunch of 16 year olds try to push the boundaries of the AI tech is probably huge.

If a computer cant read it then what will an examiner do? what happened to learning hand writing at primary school has that disappeared?

It’s the obsession with learning cursive writing at Primary that can cause this, in my experience. And to answer your point in what an Examiner would do? As an Examiner myself, you would take more time than a computer would, to try and read it. ‘Benefit of Doubt’ can then be utilised-as far as I know, that can’t be programmed by a neural network or genetic algorithm accurately yet.

You seem very intent on going down the full tech route despite plenty of cons. Personally, I like to instill a bit of humanity into my classrooms and try not to produce a bunch of robotic zombies with qualifications.

And I say that as a Computer Science teacher, with a degree in a Computer Science with Artifical Intelligence from Sussex.
(I realise that sounds obnoxious but did want to point out I’m definitely not a Luddite!)

A few teachers I had could have been adequately replaced by webinars. Quite frankly, unless parents start actually paying to educate their children, the government could never afford to entice enough intelligent and dedicated people into the profession to make a difference. It's a fairly thankless task.

At a gut level, I think it's an awful idea.

But then... I self-taught A2 Critical Thinking because my school made everyone do it or General Studies at AS but didn't teach either to A2. I wasn't prepared to carry on one of my other 4 subjects to A2 (teacher hated me - it was mutal, in fact - and I was finding the subject really difficult), and another one I loved but was never going to get the grades I needed for uni, so I taught myself A2 Critical Thinking from the textbook, and occationally met up with the teacher who taught it at AS to check in. And I got an A.

But it definitely wouldn't work for everyone, and not below A Level, I don't think.

It certainly wouldn’t work for my subject (History) or any other humanity.

Marking and feedback is most definitely not based on the use of particular terms or phrases. 2 different A* pupils could produce very different responses. How would a computer judge the use of historical skills or essay writing ability?

The discussions, debates, playing devil’s advocate and myriad other methods of considering interpretations and supported conclusions would be virtually impossible through an app never mind ensuring students understand some very complex material.

AI has its place but working with human beings in all their variables is not it.

however its quite easy for programs to detect cut and paste / plagiarism.

Only when it has been input in to the program by humans

If a computer cant read it then what will an examiner do?

Either read it (it can be done) or not award marks.

what happened to learning hand writing at primary school has that disappeared?

It hasn't been really taught at primary for a long time.

Method marks can be gained in lots of ways
I know that but technologically there is no reason google cant produce a program that gives marks for 'working out'.

Over many years of teaching I can assure you that most pupils look for the quick way of doing things Agree and such a course might not be for those children, however its quite easy for programs to detect cut and paste / plagiarism.

Computers definitely cannot read all types of handwriting If a computer cant read it then what will an examiner do? what happened to learning hand writing at primary school has that disappeared?

Computers long ago learnt how to read handwriting.

Ha ha ha! Computers definitely cannot read all types of handwriting yet-I can just imagine scanning in a lot of my current students’ horrific handwriting.

“Computer Says No”

No reason why the course couldn't include using a stylus or writing and scanning answers. Computers long ago learnt how to read handwriting.

Over many years of teaching I can assure you that most pupils look for the quick way of doing things, the amount of documents (word, ppt, publisher or other open source software) that contain copy and paste answers is ridiculous.

Julie8008

You may get a mark for the correct format/word/phrase etc but the majority of the marks are for showing knowledge and working out.