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Original poster

The league tables are out - let's talk Progress 8

113 replies

noblegiraffe · 27/01/2018 11:05

The secondary league tables were published this week:

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&for=secondary

Some schools at the top have fab progress 8. Harris Battersea has done amazingly with 80% PP Shock

I saw on Twitter this interesting breakdown of Progress 8 by type of student. Girls make more progress than boys, students with EAL make more progress than those who have English as a first language. Disadvantaged pupils make less progress, students with SEN even less.
When you look at the league tables, you then notice at the top several girls schools, and London schools with a high proportion of EAL.

Is progress 8 really a measure of progress, or a measure of school intake? Does a student being EAL outweigh them being disadvantaged?

And why are boys doing so much worse than girls?

The league tables are out - let's talk Progress 8
OP posts:
jammydodge · 27/01/2018 14:59

'This year, there were more points to be gained by getting from an A to an A* (1.5) than from an F to an E (0.5 I think)'

How is that not biased? Why was it changed?

jammydodge · 27/01/2018 14:57

'Don't grammar schools actually often struggle to get good P8 scores, given the high starting points?'

They shouldn't struggle because children of above average ability should have greater potential for learning.

cantkeepawayforever · 27/01/2018 14:56

Piggy, that was the case with last year's calculation - and with my cynical hat on, that's why it was changed, because grammars didn't look 'good enough' using it.

Piggywaspushed · 27/01/2018 14:55

I just read the link middle but I didn't really understand it...Blush

cantkeepawayforever · 27/01/2018 14:55

The other thing is that Performance 8 this year was calculated differently from last year. Last year, the 'points' given to each letter grade GCSE went up in uniform steps - 1 point per grade, IIRC. This year, there were more points to be gained by getting from an A to an A* (1.5) than from an F to an E (0.5 I think).

Again, this benefits schools with higher performing intakes, as the points available for squeezing A*s out of pupils 'meant' to get As are 3x greater than getting an E rather than an F.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/561021/Progress_8_and_Attainment_8_how_measures_are_calculated.pdf

Piggywaspushed · 27/01/2018 14:53

Don't grammar schools actually often struggle to get good P8 scores, given the high starting points?

Certainly my school's P8 (leafy semi rural , fairly affluent) is 'below average'.

catslife · 27/01/2018 14:50

The problem with Performance 8 tables is that this is only the second year this measure has been used and the qualifications with the greatest weighting i.e. English and Maths have completed changed specification since last year.
middle your sons schools may fit the pattern, but can you really draw a conclusion from just 2 schools.
Interestingly in my city LEA (outside London) there are a few surprises in the new Progress 8 tables with several schools with very high %PP performing better than some very sought after schools with more priveleged intakes.

Middleoftheroad · 27/01/2018 13:04

Needless to say my son at GS - great pg8 results. My son's comp was below average, more so for middle and high ability kids though.

Middleoftheroad · 27/01/2018 13:01

There was a good piece in Schools Week on this yesterday - will try to link to it

cantkeepawayforever · 27/01/2018 12:57

Noble, remembering your instructive post long ago on the impact of a small number of outlying results on Progress8, are there ranges given for each of the figures used to construct the graph?

cantkeepawayforever · 27/01/2018 12:55

What is interesting is that schools with high %SEN pupils will continue to have poorer progress than those with very low % ... and those with very high proportions of disadvantaged pupils (particularly those in areas which are not highly ethnically diverse, e.g. coastal towns) will also have poorer progress.

Which is pretty much exactly the same pattern as for

  • Raw results
  • Ofsted grades
(as i have said many times before, sorting schools by %PP, particularly for schools outside London, is depressing, in that schools with the lowest %PP are almost universally outstanding, those with the highest %PP are most commonly RI or Inadequate)

So Progress 8, raw results and Ofsted grades - unsurprisingly, because they are strongly causally linked - are not independent of intake.

sashh · 27/01/2018 12:23

And why are boys doing so much worse than girls?

They always have. And in IMHO while they can get in to college/uni and eventually jobs with poorer grades it won't change.