Why do the amount of GCSE schools allow differ from so widely

I'm old.
I did O Levels
at a selective private gels school in London
we all did 8 except for the brightest girl (who will get her Nobel Prize soon) who did 9

it did not seem to be the end of the world then
it is not now.

We all did 3 A levels (she did 4 btw)

(So both will have EBacc, but the breadth of subjects offered, with 5 full option blocks, allows 2 humanities, 2 MFl, 2 art / design subjects, various computing options, practical subjects like Drama and Music etc etc)

Rufus, that's awful.

My DD - top sets all the way - does 2 english, maths and double science [triple not offered, but A-level science results very high as taught from the basis of double].

she then does 2 MFL, 2 Art / Design subjects (Art + Textiles) and History.

DS - also mostly top sets - did the same core subjects, then 2 MFL, History, Philosophy & Ethics + Music.

The narrowness of some of these GCSE menus appals me.

There is no requirement to do EBACC at my childrens school thank goodness

@Piggywaspushed I dont think I explained it too well.

Basically if you are currently in the top sets you do

English Literature
English Language
Maths
MFL
Triple Science
Then you have only 1 choice/option of 1 humanity subject.

A total of 8 GCSEs only and top set students must do the ebac and cannot do BTECs as an option.

If you are in the middle/lower sets you do

English Literature
English Language
Maths
Double science
MFL

Then choose 2 options which include humanities, Art/Technical subjects and BTECs in a variety of vocational subject.

No matter which set you are in you ONLY take 8 subjects to exam level no more. Historically the school have offered 10-12 GCSEs but the new head feels 'less is more'. Less subjects allows more study time which equals higher grades and bigger bonus for him

DD is gutted. She wants to do Art/Design but shes not allowed because shes top set. She has to do the stupid ebac subjects.

The double science award does mean 3 sciences are studied and is timetabled as 2 subjects. It is 2 GCSEs. The English exams are distinct and separate, so they are also 2. However, 7 is light and looks like a reduced curriculum. 8 is the minimum really. GCSEs should, ideally, be broad and not close off possible educational routes. The brightest children do manage a broad curriculum. The ones who might be very good at a few subjects tend to want to drop subjects as soon as possible leaving them with a specialist education very early and in some cases in year 9. Only doing 7 GCSEs over 3 years is too few in my view.

Vixnixtrix1981 The BTEC Drama counts as a GCSE.

Maybe the admissions tutors that post on Mumsnet can help here.

There is some truth in top universities only looking at the top 7 or 8 grades. That doesn’t mean it is fine by them to only do 7 or 8 GCSEs.

If you are only doing 7, it’s really only five as it will include 2 science and probably 2 English. Let’s say it is E/M/Sc, à humanity and a tech subject. This is not a broad and balanced curriculum and a 14 year old is being short-changed out of a decent education.

Posted too soon.
However, none of these were Russell Group universities, even the top ones he applied to were the level below that (Leicester etc)

DS1 only has seven GCSEs and one Level 2 certificate in Latin Language). He got offers from all five universities he applied to.

Do you need 8 GCSE's for Russell Group university's?
My lad will pick his options this year ... But if they are the same as last year it will be ...
Compulsory: English Lit/Lang, Double Science, Maths, French
Then he has to pick History or Geography and then one other.
The thing is, he wants to do Drama which is a BTEC, meaning only 7 GCSE's????
Is this too low?

9.5 here....5.5 compulsory ( maths, double science , 2x English and half RE) and 4 options (25 to chose from with no restrictions).
Ds really wants to do triple science, geography history and DT. He's in a big comp and top sets for everything apart from English were he's more middling. Will probably do science a levels eventually.... all he knows about future career plans is that he wants to travel!

I had been encouraging him to swap DT with Spanish, however Ive done a bit of research and only UCL likes a MFL at GCSE , and if you don't have one they like you do a language course before/ when you start.

In all honesty the DT department at his school is great and he would really enjoy it- he already does lots of DT type stuff after school and is super enthusiastic. He likes the speaking part of Spanish but the reading and writing..... not so much. Spanish will be more of an uphill struggle I think.

Should I still encourage a MFL do you think?

My thinking was that my MFL GCSE isn't much use to me.... but there are loads on online resources and to honest immersion in the language is a better way to learn it in the future if he wants to travel. BUT I don't want to close any career paths for the future

So when I did my GCSEs in 1991, I did 9, and that was absolutely standard. I then went to a top 6th form college (it was in the top 5 in the country) and did 3 A Levels - again - absolutely standard. Not sure where the assumption that 9 GCSEs/3 A levels is a new thing has come from.

IME (as a teacher) the point at which many students were doing 14/15 GCSEs was at the height of "equivalents" - I used to teach a BTEC Level 2 Performing Arts course which counted as 4 GCSEs. The amount of work the students did was more than they would do for GCSE Drama, but not 4x that amount. Perhaps double, but not 4x. If a student was doing that BTEC in Performing Arts plus a similar BTEC in Business Studies/Health & Social Care/Sport, that that's 8 "GCSEs" straight away. Not hard to see how they might end up with 14. Those BTECs disappeared about 5 years ago.

Having seen the "name and shame" articles in the national papers this week about Progress 8, it's hardly surprising that schools are trying to play that system. I used to teach in a school that appears on the list of "worst schools in England" and it's utterly unfair - publishing schools on a list like that based purely on one measure is awful.

My DS is a linguist. I have looked through hundreds of unis to establish any that insist on/ look favourably on MFL GCSE. There was one, so don't panic!!

They can't discriminate against state school students so they can't insist on specific GCSEs in general admission criteria : beyond the core, obviously!

If you look at the details of a school on the new league tables there is a section of 'Results by pupil characteristics' including 'prior attainment' and within that it tells you an average of the number of GCSEs entered for the school as a whole and broken down by prior attainment.

Sorry : I think I misunderstood reinette's post by the way!

Yes, thank you. Including 10things.
I just don't know. He is pretty bright. And currently does want to go to uni (maybe a top one?) to do genetic engineering -stem cells technology.
But because he hates French so much......

But like you, I guess if any uni doesn't want to take him, because he doesn't have a language ..... then... their loss?

He did Latin at primary and liked it a lot. Which fits in with biology. Maybe I could persuade him to consider that later?

I find all this streaming by the back door a bit alarming!

Oblomov, I allowed my DS to drop languages. I guess it may impact later uni choices? But in his case, he has no linguistic ability, he does not enjoy it, and he'd struggle to get a C.

He loves music, plays 3 instruments, so we let him choose that. He also loves science, maths and computing.

The result is that he is a happy y10, at the moment and enjoys school.

If it means he can't go to a "top" university, so be it. They all want well rounded applicants, but what about kids who have a very strong STEM preference/interest but did not do a language, are they really "doomed"? I just find that hard to believe tbh.

Aren't a-levels more important for that, anyway?

I suppose what I'm trying to say is just because a school has dropped MFL and Humanity as compulsory, doesn't mean your child can't take them.

It's just about recognising not all children are going to go to uni, or want to, or like, or are any good at those subjects. So why make them compulsory?

Language is recommended at DS school but not compulsory.

At the school they have levels of choice. Depending on whether the child is academic or more creative, practical, sporty.

So 3 levels, each child is recommended a level.

So a top set child for maths and science would be offered a level that makes triple science and humanity/MFL compulsory leaving them 2 options of there choice.(with the hope the child chooses a MFL/Humanity as an option)

The next level gives 3 options and the last level gives 4 options.

There are lots of different GCSEs and vocational qualifications to choose from.

Engineering is offered to some but takes up 2 options.

Language being non compulsory, ie that you are allowed to drop it and now, for the first time, NOT do a language, is new, at our school. This year.

Is it at others?

I just don't know what to advise Ds1.

Interesting.
Ds1 has to hand his option choices form in, in 2 weeks.

I too am shocked at how different it is. At other schools. I had no idea of the diversity.

Compulsory:
Maths
English
Science
PE
RE

1)my friend couldn't believe they were forced to do RE. And PE.

2)They don't encourage Geography and History because they think the 2 humanities together are too hard (odd because I did both)

3. You don't have to do a language. Ds1 hates French and isn't good at it. I am worried about this and how top universities will view this (if he decides to go to uni to do ..... genetic engineering/stem cell investigations .... seems to be his current interest....)with no language.

I am worried. Am I supposed to be helping him/guiding him more?

My children's (state) schools have the same options as reinette.
For the last two subjects, pupils can choose whichever subjects they want from the list of those on offer.

There are no option blocks; the school looks at what subjects the pupils have chosen and then designs the timetable to accommodate as many pupils as possible. In DS1's year, DS2's year and DS3's year, every pupil was able to study their first choice of subjects.