Should the DfE be offering £26k bursaries to train as a Classics teacher?

I'm completely informed, ours views simply differ.

There is duplication but I think you believe in quantity from your voluminous output, thread-wise!

them

That's far more words than required to outline your objections noble. Also duplication.

No-one - certainly not me, and I've said it on this thread several times - thinks the needs of the least able are being served by the new curriculum. The more able are being much better served and arguably they're equally important.

Nothing else apart from that is a massive issue and some of the initial settling down problems them are being exacerbated by doomsday teachers and not found to be a deal by others. But that's been done to death on another of your many threads.

There are always inconsistencies in marking, year in year out. Certainly each year for as long as I can recall one subject or another has been hit, often with the exam board digging in and sometimes hard won university places being lost: not new (but it would be nice if it didn't happen :)).

Passive acceptance of change is not what I see in the best of the current crop of NQTs and Purple's approach is clearly constructive, so of course would pass muster. I'm guessing Purple was interviewed a couple of years ago when things were less clear/ looked worse than they are/ do now. Piggy I don't see any quest for teachers who are uncritically positive. Being uncritical is a no no for teachers but critical thinking is a far cry from purely negative thinking. The objection is to those who've been preaching a doomsday scenario since the first changes were mooted and are still railing against them now, despite many of their fears not actually having come to fruition. The problem is where people refuse to budge intellectually even when events are proving them wrong. You're misinterpreting again.

Student loan forgiveness for all new teachers was actually in the Tory manifesto for the 2017 election believe it or not. It almost got Labour voting prospective teacher DC to vote Conservative . It has since been watered down to applying to those who teach in certain defined locations such as some coastal schools.

I actually got the student loan forgiveness over 10 years - the year I started had this as a recruitment incentive as well as golden handcuffs. Kept me going 😆

A PP implied that retention doesn't matter (as much as we say) because once past a few years, teachers become lazy, cynical whiners (I wonder why!?). This obviously was predicate don the belief the generous bursaries would somehow create a glut of new teachers to replace said dead wood.

ps no intention to offend any new colleagues (I was one once!) so please note I said most ! Not all, thankfully.

To be honest, any school that calls an analytical, critical, problem solving teacher, who reads and keeps up with educational developments moaning or negative is a red flag to me. This endless search for colleagues who will only be unfailingly 'positive' about everything often leads to mediocre middle leadership and lack of challenge. I want a leader who is able to see that things could -and bloody well should- be better, and who has the intellectual capacity to ask the difficult questions. Only then , do I think they will understand fully the stresses on their own staff and work to help, support and protect them.

I work with some amazing colleagues but the stand out features of most new ones coming into the profession are lack of intellectual curiosity and passive acceptance of change.

Yes, I was looking at the table for the bursaries again and thinking about how you actually retain these teachers. If there are no strings attached, we still have the problem that graduates will take the bursary and decide that it's too much stress for too little money. But if they were tied into 5 years would they even start? Particularly if the risk is that after qualifying they'd earn less than the bursary for a while?

Interesting thread (apart from the derailment). Recognise noble from other threads, very clever and kind from what I’ve read. Helped out a poster’s DS who decided to study A Level Maths from scratch in her free time. Presumably for the love of teaching rather than because she’s miserable and wanted an additional student to moan about.

There is no way the salary and benefits of teaching could be considered good or equivalent to the private sector. I used to work in professional services. Yes, stressful, but not a patch on teaching, and after a couple of years I was being paid £38k, plus decent pension plus a whole load of other benefits. Worked with a lot of people who left to follow their ‘vocation’ to teach...nearly all came back jaded and pissed off after a couple of years. After banking the bursary of course.

People display a peculiar arrogance towards teachers. Almost as if, because they taught their own DC how to count to ten they think ah instructing children is easy and rewarding! I don’t understand it. Teaching is clearly a skill that is honed by experience. If we want fresh enthusiasm, I’m sure noble would oblige if the state paid for her to have a term off on full pay for some R&R, preferably in sunny climes

That would probably be cheaper than chucking all this money at new starters who won’t go the distance!

I did classics at 6th form and know quite a few people who’ve taken it further. It’s a brilliant subject.

I managed to get through the interview process at a very, very good school largely on the basis of 'here are the ways I will manage this particular key stage & the latest ridiculous stuff proposed - which we are agreed is appalling - so as to make the agreed awfulness less awful'.

I'm currently trying to avoid a promotion (doesn't fit with my work life balance, kids etc) which is being thrust upon me.

Starting point in informal discussion with the Head is again - ok, how would you run s department around this nonsense & continue to get excellent results?

It's ok to be very very critical of current trends in education. That's not being negative.

classroom bossiness
Twerp.

Your own I mean, obviously.

You've spotted the rookie error then noble :)

Loose the DfE civil servants calculate what it's likely to take to get the uptake required and since far fewer Classics grads will take up a bursary the cost re.Classics will be tiny compared to more mainstream subjects. It's not plucked from thin air, it's a properly calculated model. There's no way the DfE is chucking more money overall at Classics than at the core subjects.

Piggy no response required but in answer to your own queries:

a) my one example was in response to your post today @ 10:52:17
b) my post to Mum was in response to hers of 10:54:49
c) my post to Loose was in response to hers of 11:57:02

Incidentally I'm out to 'prove' nothing. MN is merely a discussion site and not something to get too exercised about. That said, no teacher with deeply negative views would get through the interview process at any good and well led school where a frequent question in recent years has been: what do you think of the curriculum changes for MFL/ English/ History/ Maths/ Physics etc.

Revealing take on the Y9 bottom set!

I definitely didn't say noble was moaning!
Sadly, the reasons behind the classics bursary remain a mystery but I do have a question - does anyone know who actually decides the bursary amounts and for which subjects and how they decide?