Should the DfE be offering £26k bursaries to train as a Classics teacher?

Spot on goodbyestranger. It is not about paying people more for hanging around the longest.

It is obvious that bursaries must be tied to actually doing the job for several years. 5 would possibly be fair. Many years ago, when I received course fees paid by my employer I had to work for 2 years after qualifying. If I did not do this, I was contracted to pay back the fees. They were paltry in comparison to £26,000.

I start my pgce in geography in September. It wasn't until my 1st interview that I found out that there was even bursaries available. Then to find out what a geography trainee would get?! I was shocked!

I think there is another £5k incentive after 3 years, then another after 3 (I may have the years wrong). For retention. It's seems very insulting to current teachers, but at the same time. There's no way I could afford to do the training without some financial help.

The new enthusiastic recruits are not necessarily trained by the moaners though noble.

Out of all the many many teachers I've encountered in recent years on both sides of the fence the best teachers are not the ones who moan endlessly and there are some very good new teachers coming through, whose qualifications and attitude can knock spots off the jaded moaning ones who clutter up staff rooms.

Obviously there are still legions of teachers who are still positive and enjoy their vocation. Very important to retain those ones of course, just not the ones who moan about every last policy initiative and post on the internet/ bang on in RL about it rather than embracing change as opportunity and positive for the pupils they teach.

Too late for my own DC but if this leads to the re-introduction of Classics as standard in state schools then fab (I don't think it will though which is a shame).

£26,000 would go a significant way to increase non-contact time of current teachers and may actually result in the staying. We must focus on retention not this open door policy of throwing money at trainees who don’t last the distance (we have some fab new teachers but some rubbish ones).

The whole system is a massive joke - the money thrown at new recruits is a waste. Once they're in the system they'll leave because it's so broken or they'll pop off to a lovely private school. The money should be spent training and retaining teachers in English, Maths, science and MFL to give our young people at least a chance to make things better. There are so many people who are victims of this ridiculous system.

And OP, YANBU - money being spent on subjects which are more of a luxury than essential is just another example of why our education system is crap. I'm not saying Classics isn't a useful subject, but when there are core subject teachers leaving in droves surely it makes sense to fix that problem first?

Former English teacher here, FWIW.

Tory priorities showing...

I grew up on a council estate, don't vote Tory and did Classics at a state school. I'm sick of it being considered an elitist subject and would be delighted to see more Classics teachers in the state sector.

www.theguardian.com/education/2018/jan/22/yorkshire-richmond-school-stop-teaching-latin-600-years

Potter said all schools were having to make adjustments to their curriculum offer because of funding restrictions. “After considering a number of factors, including exam results and student numbers, we have regrettably made the decision to cease offering Latin from September,”

Hmm well I am a qualified MFL teacher with six years' experience; that £26k bursary is more than my salary last year (yes really; hello performance related pay and year 11s who wish they hadn't picked French).

Something's wrong somewhere. Maybe I'm such a crap teacher I don't deserve the money, someone new and enthusiastic does.

I completely understand where Noble is coming from but as a parent there just seems to be a complete lack of good teachers in all areas in the state system. Why have the dept of ed made it so piecemeal, offering different bursaries here and there? It is not at all thought through. The whole of the state system needs funding and an urgent overhaul. My DCs studied Latin at both state and indie and it has been good for them. The indie had qualified teachers in all subjects, which I know is not always the norm in indies. The state had qualified teachers in most subjects.

If there is a "recruitment and retention crisis" it seems illogical that schools would be "laying off staff left, right and centre"

Its a chicken and egg situation you cant say no/few schools are (re)starting the teaching of Classics until you have trained enough teachers to make that a possibility.

Maybe schools cant afford 'more' teachers but I dont see any reason why they shouldn't have the option of hiring classics teachers, when they are hiring new staff. So its fair for the government to make sure there are enough trained.

I studied Latin at a state school (and earlier at a private school) and found it helped with other languages as well as helping with my general vocabulary. My children won't have the same chance since the Classics teacher is dead and unlikely to be replaced (same school, which is the only available one).
My personal experience has been that Latin is important in helping to develop skills in other subjects, so I'm glad if new teachers are being tempted in, but that only works if there is enough money to pay them. If the basics aren't being covered (and they obviously aren't always- our local secondary school has had to make savage staffing cuts) then improvements are a luxury.
On the plus side, I'm enjoying teaching my sons Latin, using the same textbooks I had at school (Cambridge Lain- Caecilius has been in horto for a very long time!).

Disagree about retention as opposed to recruitment. Schools arguably need some fresh enthusiastic recruits not better paid incumbents who frequently moan a lot of the time.

Yes. It's a really good idea. Perhaps more of us state school parents might see Classics being taught in school. That would be excellent progress at last.

the better question is definitely why private schools consider it valuable but it is offered in so few state schools (and also why all these bursaries don't require a minimum commitment to working in state schools - and the same question for med school).

Classics is good for the study of English and other languages, can take you into an interest in ancient history too. I don't see why it's a face to the bottom where we have to prioritize only useful knowledge that leads directly to the sort of jobs most people will end up in, that's hardly the dream of education is it?

The bursaries might also be linked to what they think would be enticing to people with that degree. I don't know what the average starting salary for someone who has a classics degree is but I wouldn't be suprised if starting salary for someone with a first in maths is 25,000+ (though that's just a guess).

If there's a shortage of Classics teachers then I don't see the problem. We should be applauding the decision (whilst also calling for more funding for other subjects).

If I were a trainee I would think this meant that there must be jobs around, and there aren't. When I trained I got a 12k bursary. 6 years later and my subject is no longer taught in most schools. I wish I hadn't been lured in by the bursary!

What is shocking is that the bursary isn't dependent (or certainly hasn't been, I confess I've not read the link today) on the recipient teaching in a state school, or schools for the next 6 years or so.
Friend's dd knows of several people taking the bursary who have no intention of being teachers.

It's a lot of pernickety fiddling about, isn't it?

After all, a trainee is either needed or she isn't. She's not 18% less needed than a PGCE student of X subject because of last year's figures. It's a bums on seats binary, really.

I do understand why you're pissed off. Every year they fiddle about and offend a whole different group of teachers.