Should the DfE be offering £26k bursaries to train as a Classics teacher?

they wouldn't be effective in a classroom setting

Sadly some of the supply teachers my DCs have had have not been very effective in a classroom setting. One of them was sacked after 6 weeks.

noble you're obviously completely free to complain about any educational matter you like on here, but Piggy inferred that the threads were mainly for complaining classroom teachers and they're not, they're open to anyone who cares to contribute, even if they have more positive views of the changes.

I didn't miss your point Goldrill. I responded to you linking my comment about enthusiasm with fluffy bunnies, when I had cast no such imputation (not that I don't like fluffy bunnies, I have several cute wild fbs in my garden, but I agree that they wouldn't be effective in a classroom setting).

I love Noble's threads -always thought-provoking and stimulating. Definitely not moaning! Great titles, too. I am not at all surprised all your set 1 carried on to A level, Noble!
DS1's maths teacher is very experienced and brilliant and he's going to do A level maths, so I'm not going to swap her but you can have DS2 anytime!

All bursaries should have a work commitment in the state sector attached to them - 5 years in my view.

Agree entirely with this.

I would be pleased if she taught my DCs

+1

I'm sure she'd be a better option than the string of supply teachers my DCs have had for the last few years due to their teachers leaving mid year (one is doing 1-2-1 tutoring, one has set up a tution centre, one is working in a cake shop and one moved abroad to teach).

Indeed but noble is one of the teachers on MN that I would be pleased if she taught my DCs. She is informed, articulate, highly educated and she really cares and will work through the issues she moans about to get the best for her students. That is abundantly obvious to me.

Sadly, that should describe all teachers . But it doesn't.

You missed my point, goodbye. As teaching is viewed so negatively, choosing to come into it at this point can be put down to rose tinted glasses and naivety. This is quite offensive to nqts. Fluffy bunny is a term I have heard used - not my own invention. I was absolutely aware of what I was taking on and it is still less stressful than my previous job!

I would also venture that as someone who has just been through the recruitment process and is definitely settling in for the next few decades, I have some idea of what could change to help others get to this point.

And yes, I am off sick today.

Or rather, not purely the preserve.

It didn't take any analysing Piggy and the Education threads are not the preserve of moany classroom teachers.

Yes I'm aware of some schools being slagged off. One of our former HTs told me he'd spent the afternoon on MN horrified at the inaccuracies about our school being peddled by local parents whose DC had failed to get in. Indeed it was that comment that introduced me to MN and it was quite an eye opener.

OK. well maybe don't analyse the education and staff room boards so much then? We come here to vent!

It is nothing compared with how (some) parents talk about us and our schools on Mumsnet...

Piggy there's concern and then there's moaning endlessly about every last thing.

The teachers who express the most concern and ire about policy are usually the most dedicated and committed. It's the ones who don't care you need to watch out for.

That's good noble. Of course it did occur to me that you might vent every last ounce of your gloom on these threads and bounce into your classes full of positive energy, but it's been quite a leap to imagine. I do see that's it's possible though. Congrats on the results. Dreary teachers are the worst sort, even if they know their subject and syllabus. You can't hope to enthuse your students if you're dreary in fact dull teachers annoy me a lot because they have a very real capacity to kill subjects for their pupils; I'm thinking here of some really irritating real life examples. However, if there was an Oscar for complaining threads.... :)

No, absolutely neither do I but I am wondering why classics needs a larger bursary than so many other subjects. The English bursary is the most shocking. It seems short sighted.

Classics is taught at my school but by two non specialists. This is not because we couldn't recruit them. It is because they asked to start the subject up out of their own enthusiasm for the subject. If they both left, I guess we would just let the subject wither away. It is done by maybe 20 students across the school.

I did some latin at school. It is the subject that with maths I remember gave me the most satisfaction for working things out.
I have observed that generally (with some exceptions) classicists are interesting, multitalented and enthusiastic people. Classics seems to tick many boxes from what I have observed: the mathematicians enjoy and are good at Latin (and Greek) because of the logic and puzzle structure, for linguists and humanities it improves the use and understanding of syntax and vocabulary intermingled with history and roots of European culture (plus quite a bit of exciting gory stuff).
I think maths is essential but IMO classics at school when well taught provides the ingredients for a broad but rigorous approach to learning.

This project has grown and grown for the uptake of latin in poorer primary state schools so those schools must see benefits.
irisproject.org.uk/index.php/literacy-through-latin

There is n't enough money for teaching but I don't think that necessitates a reductionist view of what is important in education.

You're adding in the words fluffy bunny Goldrill. There are a great many highly qualified, incredibly promising trainee teachers who are enthusiastic without being either fluffy or bunny like. Enthusiasm is a fairly key attribute for a classroom teacher.

Plenty of my own DCs' teachers have been at once experienced and hugely dedicated and competent - lucky DC. They've also been taught by some fantastic NQTs. However the extraordinary number of threads started by a particular poster over the past twelve or eighteen months, all of which without exception are negative and berating all recent educational policy change and exam reform and the allocation of funding etc does prompt the question about whether or not that negativity - and it's on quite a grand scale - must feed down to the DC the poster teaches.

I'm an nqt and I am fed up with being thought of as an enthusiastic fluffy bunny!

I was previously a public sector scientist, in a reasonably senior, specialist role.
I was well paid but it took me six years of uni and more than that working my way up through the ranks. I am still mildly horrified that I am supposed to be viewed as competent in an equally demanding profession after nine months of training. I am expecting to be a bit rubbish at this for a few years yet, but hopefully not sufficientlybad to trash anyone's gcses. That's one thing which needs sorting - if it is training on the job then more consistency amongst providers and a longer support period is important. Access togood quality resources, so you can focus on learning to teach and then on adapting them would also help - me being up till midnight producing resources is utterly pointless and a huge duplication of effort.

And on the bursaries: I'm on around half my previous salary as nqt, and bursary was similar. Could not have done it for less, and I still have to pay back the sodding £9 k loan!

Sorry - not about classics but do get fed up reading all the stuff about recruitment crisis getting the same responses. I am clearly not in this for the dosh, nor am I a bright and naive young thing.

Lucy Kellaway must be pushing 60 of course - most 'enthusiastic newbies' are somewhat younger than that, although I get your point.

I hear you.

I am so fed up of being spoken about as if I should be put out to grass. mainly on Mumsnet. I feel like Boxer in Animal Farm : occasionally I watch out for the Knacker's van!