Year 7 retalliation

physicskate
I get it now.

You are right. Retailation doesn't solve anything. It's why i hate dealing with the minority of parents who say 'but X did... first so my DC did it back'
No.
X did...
So my child got out of the situation abd if need be used force to remove themselves from tjat situation (e.g pushed past/pushed someone off them) and went to find an a member of staff.

Jsotherhalf, does your child know that?! Blimey, sounds like the club's telling them it's okay to kick back as they'll be covered..!

fwiw, DS's school made it v.v.clear from day 1, that if a child is feeling hassled, bullied (verbally or physically), they're to go to a teacher. Basically they all know that any hitting back means that you are in trouble too, though their version of events will be listened to and taken into account. The kids are also taught to help one another out - i.e. not to standby and watch, but to help others out. If they watch a fight and don't try and find a teacher to intervene, the watchers are in trouble too. It seems to work quite well tbh.

That was the wrong word. Read as :

I told my DC to be careful because teachers seldom see the initial incident, only the reaction, and therefore ...

Maisypops, that was kinda my point - two wrongs don't make a right. I retaliated by being unkind to someone who was unkind to me... that doesn't make it right. And actually it didn't make me feel any better either. And it doesn't help my reproductive organs make children so that I would be acceptable to the op.

A parent's perspective:
I told my DC to be careful because teachers seldom see the initial incident, only the retaliation, and therefore the innocent party often starts off on the back foot with authority. Don't be a mug and fall for deliberate provocation.
Besides, two wrongs don't make a right.

I think the person who started it should get a worse punishment. Your son may well have never pushed anyone if they hadn't been pushed first and it's kind of a natural reaction. Hitting/punching/kicking is different and I've never told my kids to hit back. It seemed to be the main message people were posting on facebook about giving their child the night before they started year 7 and i found it depressing, especially when one of the mums said "and if you grass you'll be tormented until you leave school and even the teachers hate a grass." Delightful.
How did the school find out about the pushing?

Ds does martial arts. The organisation he attends is insured with a martial arts body which will provide legal support if a child is accused of hitting out at a bully. Hopefully we'll never need it.

physics
It's absundantly clear on this thread that the OP only wants a certain type of response.
You're probably best not worrying about if they are/aren't discriminating against you.
That said, making comments about their child is not really on.

A child can retaliate and still be a perfectly nice child who has made a poor choice in the moment. There's no need to be unkind.

Ok parent here.

My Y7 ds was involved in a fight with a bully. The tormenting was acknowledged by the school, they agreed it was sustained and serious. They ageeed the bully started the fight. So anyway there was a fight, neither boy was injured. But the head teacher called me in and told me there can never be any justification for retaliation and it just muddies the discipline they need to dish out to the bully and puts violence on the victims record and gets them disciplined.

You can’t fight back. That’s all there is to it. What the child needs is witnesses to the provocation. That’s the only way otherwise it’s his word against the bully.

It's fine to do what they need to do to get away and report the incident.
It's not ok to thump somebody repeatedly because they kicked you once in the leg.

So you're discriminating against me because my uterus doesn't work?? No wonder your child is so delightful!!!

I do think physics has a point OP.
It does feel a bit like 'i'll ask for parent perspectives because i'm going to stand a better chance of the answer i want. Then when people have come on and said that defence is fine but retaliation is wrong I'll suggest they must be teachers too because i've not got the replies i want. What has probably gone on is my DC has retaliated physically and i'm not happy with them being in trouble. What I'm really after is a thread where people will tell me it is perfectly reasonable for my child ti have been physical towards another child because technically it's not their fault so they shouldn't be sanctioned'.

If hitting back meant he wasn't walloped again then of course it's ok.

We're talking about children. A frightened upset child may well throw a punch instead of a push in the heat of the moment.

Sometimes pushing isn't enough.

This is why my boys go to self defence classes. They are told they can do a certain number of moves to defend themselves, however if they are able to escape a situation without needing to do so then that is preferable. It has helped my 13 yr old hugely, he's used it a couple of times but more importantly he carries himself with a certain confidence as he knows can defend himself if necessary.

Are you only asking for parents opinions because you think they will tell you what you want to hear!

If your child pushed back as retaliation and not in self defence, of course he should be reprimanded.

And I am a teacher and childless NOT by choice but by infertility, so I quite resent your opinion that only parents are allowed an opinion about this.

Pushing someone off you when they havr hold/have you cornered etc - fair enough and understandable

Hitting someone because they hit you first / shoving someone because they shoved you first - not ok and both students have been physical.

What bothered me a lot in one school I used to work in is how many parents had told their children if anyone starts on you, you smack them, if anyone calls you (gossip or bitching), smack em, you've got to be tough and stand up for yourself and when staff got involved it was i've told my lad if someone starts he better finish it or he's going find himself having issues with people thinking he's a pussy and an eady target. One of the most ones I had was 2 Year 7 girls to the effect of well she was calling my daughter. You can't expect her to take it (bitchy fall out, one child decidied to claw a clump of hair out another girl). Mum said it was fine because the other 12 year old girl was obviously a slag otherwise she wouldn't have been texting her daughter's 15 year old boyfriend!! Apparently that's what happens to slags and the victim of the hair clawing deserved it because she started something she couldn't finish

I am parent, not a teacher.

I would expect my child to defend himself, but not retaliate as that would just escalate things. I would expect teachers to step in pretty quickly too.

Ds1 had a child pin him to a wall by his throat within the first term at secondary. My son came from a primary school outside the area so knew no-one, is mild mannered and quiet. This happened in a corridor whilst lining up for a lesson and was completely unprovoked.

What the idiot bully didn't know is that my son does karate and was a high grade. He broke the choke hold and pushed the boy away, the boy tried to kick my son, and my son just kept pushing his leg down so it never made contact with his body. After the third kick my son caught his leg and held it. At that point a teacher came round the corner.

Because they were all year 7's the teacher handed the incident dealing over to the form tutor who saw them daily and also taught them for 1 subject.

Bully child was put in isolation, my son walked free. The choke hold breaking is followed by 1 of 2 actions, either you push them away, or you pull their head down and smash your knee into their face. My son showed he had defended himself, not had a fight. The witnessed attested to that.

I am not a teacher, just a parent. I do know that bully child was pissed off my son wasn't in detention and even asked him why. My son replied, I didn't start a fight.

Ditto retaliation and self defence are different.

Pushing someone away if they are hitting you, is different from becoming fully involved in a fight or returning the next day and hitting or whatever to get their own back.

It definitely isn't straightforward and we'd look at each case individually. And yes, pastoral staff (so decide in behaviour sanctions including exclusions) rather than parent perspective (which to be fair, is more likely to be an emotional opinion).

Retaliate and self defence are different.

You need to talk to your DS about the difference. Walking away from trouble is an important streetwise skill, and retaliation and counter retaliation get young people into s lot of trouble round where I live. Ultimately fatal trouble

And bullying is another matter again. You need to be clear about what is going on.

Teachers have to follow the riules as well! They may feel differently as a parent - but they don't decide on punishment the school does

The school rules will be laid out in reguards hitting punching kicking.

From a young age thy get told to keep their hands to themselves.

If he hit someone even in self defence it's still against school rules