DS keen on being doctor - advice welcomed!

It's good to hear that a youngster has aspirations. I would say that if he finds it interesting and mentally stimulating then it is not a bad one to consider and work towards, if he doesn't like it he could always switch to something else but it would be harder to do the other way round..
Ultimately it is definitely a good career in terms of job stability however I don't think doctors earn a lot at all. The huge responsibilities that come with the job and the staggering amount of hours that we do actually make us massively underpaid. Very few specialities make big bucks in the uk. I guess money isn't everything though.

Yes, my apologies. My wife has just pointed out to me I had mis-stated the requirement.

However, Maths A level grade A/A* is not merely (usually) going to impress more than any other third subject, the maths A level might well prove more useful because of relevance of content to modern aspects of medicine. That said, as long as his maths is very good, it's entirely unto him. A grade B in GCSE maths is a red flag, as even basic medical school statistics and data interpretation will demand a more developed maths ability than that implies.

Best to your son.
James.

I think you should encourage him to follow his dreams. He's very young and may well decide it's not for him. He might not achieve the faded he needs at gcse. But I think it's great he's got an idea in mind for what he wants to do.

Medical School at Oxbridge or Imperial/UCH

I'm a consultant dr. my wife is a former dr. and is admissions at Imperial Medicine and hence I am asked a lot about getting into medicine
Oxbridge, Imperial and UCH. I cannot speak for the many other
excellent schools.

Firstly, Maths & Chem. both required - 3 &/or 4th A level grade A
(usually 4 A levels 2 x A 2 x A, 1 x A if strong suite of GCSE's ( 12A/A is typical)

Re : Physics vs Biol A level. Biology is no better than Physics because no complex human biology is taught on any A level syllabi, which is why the gear-change in complexity once at med school in Biochemistry and Physiology slightly throws some candidates in year one.

Also, many applicants are even more thrown by the ubiquitous use of Applied Maths in modern medicine and research. You cannot fudge your way if you're just average at maths.

At Oxbridge, Imperial and UCH all that stuff about sport etc is cool but it is secondary to being truly excellent at maths and all sciences and having a superb school report - and having done some reading into medicine. IE at these schools you will very likely be questioned on what you claim to be interested in. Eg: An applicant claiming to be interested in Psychiatry as a career must expect the question : what books have you read?

But - note this well - the more difficult the questions are getting at your interview, the more interested the faculty is in you.

Lastly, getting in is harder than the degree. Medicine is lots of hard work but, it's not as intellectually demanding as the Cambridge Maths Tripos

• I know because I switched from that to medicine myself!

Good luck to all med school candidates and their parents.

He's still very young and could well change his mind as my two oldest did at least a couple of times. I think you should support him in whatever he wants to do. I said the same things as you about medicine to DD1 but she's in her first year and loving it.

I have no idea what my first term medic DD might do. There are so many different paths to travel down.

At the moment she is torn between the idea of something academic like intercalating so she can specialise in medical engineering or neurology, or something intense like emergency medicine or surgery. Her thinking will evolve.

The advantage is that as well as the vast array of specialisms there is scope to find a job just about anywhere in the country, or overseas. So if she wants to follow a Scottish crofter or Australian sheep-shearer home she can, and have a good chance of finding an good professional job locally.

There is also the mummy-track option, something few 19 year olds consider but which comes into play later. I have had school run mum friends who managed part time jobs as GPs, both NHS and Private, a hospital pathologist, working in a STD clinic, or in private practice as dermatologists. None glamorous, but better than many local jobs other p/t mums were able to find. We also used to have a GP who worked a few months then travelled a few months.

One thing I have observed recently is that doctor friends who found their area and who have worked their ways up the ranks, have found themselves in senior and satisfying positions, where they will stay till retirement. At an age when many in finance and law are looking over their shoulders, wondering when the younger generation will put them out to grass.

As a non medic who spent many years working long hours in the public sector, often for quite low pay, medicine as a career does not sound too bad.

Loner... Don't be despondent... I remember being a HO and thinking a bloody trained monkey could do my job... Filling in blood forms, taking blood when phlebotomy trolley 'forgot' my patients, clerking and making my sho cups of tea.

And then being left to it overnight when suddenly it was OK for me to be making decisions on sick patients.... Aghhhhhhh... Spent the time either crying, bring bored or terrified out of my brain.

It gets better and it opens up so many opportunities...

Jellybean, satisfaction is another kettle of fish- I agree.

Again, likely a cynical view from a junior doc as most of my life is spent writing discharge summaries and rewriting prescription charts haha.

Tbh I will be the first to say that I’m very cynical about the job in general (in case you couldn’t tell haha). Have strong personal feelings that it should be a post grad only course- I don’t think at 16/17 (when you are applying) that you can understand the full implications of what you are signing up for.

Loner... Absolutely and my dp always says that though he is top of his profession and still has to works incredibly long hours and travels and moves and often woken in the night etc... He doesn't make life and death decisions.

But then I don't think shifting millions around the world will ever give him the satisfaction I get when I can reassure a parent that their dc is going to be OK, or I see someone whose treatment for depression is working...

As a banker you have more chance of getting another job in banking if you resign due to poor conditions, than you do as getting another job as a doctor if you resign during the first few years.

It’s fair to say that we don’t have the monopoly on bad working conditions. But we do (along with other health professionals) run the very real risk of causing serious harm or death if unable to do the job to best standards due to these conditions. If the med reg calls in sick and the SHO is forced to step up- you can bet that it’s the SHO who will be punished if they make a mistake despite clearly being asked to work above their means. If one f1 in a pair calls in sick on an oncall and then the other now has 2x workload- the one remaining is now expected to keep 2x patients alive and well and will be heavily punished if unable to do so.

I just don’t personally feel that non-healthcare jobs can relate to that. You can get sacked sure, but the consequences in medicine are much worse IMO.

I don’t know about med school but I do know that being keen and specific on a career is a great advantage. The amount of clever sparky teens I know that are in agony because hey dot. Know what they want to do! I was a bit like that. Having that idea is great

I do know that St Georges Tooting is a great place to train. Friend's DC is there and absolutely loving it. Really happy, supportive place and obviously hands on, as it's a hospital too.

*trainees

Actually hiya... You did say no other career gives you no choice on moving every six months, which is frankly not the case.

I am honestly very supportive of our trainers and work in an area that does and possibly will improve things but would hate young people to be put off a career in medicine only to find themselves in a different career that has very similar demands in term of time, hours worked etc... Without maybe the genuine job satisfaction and personal fulfillment being a doctor can bring.

I think probably retail sector but not finance no... My dp earns more than an NHS consultant but not as much as some consultants doing private work.

persistent believe that no other professionals have to make same sacrifices

at no point have I said that. But I still would be surprised if you could show me a career where the same sacrifices are made for the same financial remuneration at the end of the career.

Fair enough. But I come back to my main point - he made those sacrifices to earn a huge salary, presumably many multiples of a consultant's salary. Doctors make those sacrifices to earn not a huge amount and a really relatively low hourly rate for their NHS work.

I disagree hiya as if my dp resigned early in his career he would have been unlikely to get another job in that profession... Now yes he could but he is equivalent to a consultant so 'fully trained'

As a junior doctor you could resign and the locum at the level you had achieved.
Similar to my dp.. If he had resigned then he would have been stuck contracting at low level

So actually you do have a choice... Do it or resign, same goes for many professions.

I don't believe junior doctors have the monopoly on having crap working hours /rotas / short notice etc...

My best friend is a lawyer... She got leave cancelled, missed my wedding due to being expected to work when a big case was on, didn't leave the office sometimes for days

My dp has been called back from family holidays, had leave refused, cancelled etc more times than I can recall. He has missed so many important events.

My dexh who worked for foreign office ditto...

My godson ( late 20's) on graduate management training with John Lewis... Paid poorly, works weekends, evenings, all Bank Holidays, gets moved every 6 months... Choice yes...dont like next placement? OK we will release you from contract.

While supportive of juniors in general the persistent believe that no other professionals have to make same sacrifices is naive and has danger of making your peers in other professions loose sympathy.

During the strikes, it was interesting, my patients and my peers were generally wholly supportive but my godson commented that he felt the junior doctors did not have a unique case and he thought that they sounded quite whiney and a bit precious.

He could have left and moved to another job presumably? a JD on a rotation has no such option. And I imagine he now earns several multiples of what a consultant earns.

I'm not saying doctors have it tougher than anyone else. But they earn relatively little for the sacrifices made and commitment.

Well my dp had a choice on the moves.... Do it or resign /bugger your whole career.

Same goes for junior doctors...

I don't think other professions have it easy, but no-one else would accept getting a rota that includes nights/weekends at less than a month's notice, in no other career would it be acceptable for HR to refuse leave for your own wedding with a year's notice (happened to me) and in no other career do you have no choice in moving locations significantly every six months. And in most you'd be much better remunerated by the time you reach the equivalent of consultant in the NHS.

I hope most juniors have indemnity these days!

Hiya... Thank you for that, many juniors I meet are fy1 and they don't seem to have much of a clue about extra indemnity and I do tell them that the trust absolutely will not look after them, it seems to fall on deaf ears so I thought most junior juniors don't bother.
All my consultant friends have it.
I work as gp but only on Saturdays as have a non clinical role rest of the week and I pay about 15% in indemnity.

I don't think being a doctor is an easy choice but I wonder what junior doctors think other professions are like in comparison? My dp does earn more than me now, but works incredibly long hours and carries huge responsibility, but to be fair he does say 'it's not life and death stuff'

He did study for 6yrs +.. Degree, masters, MBA, his first 10 yrs in his career he lived in 7 different countries, moved three times in one year alone, commuted to and from a European city on a weekly basis when he had two young children.

My point being is that lots of professions and professional careers do require huge effort, sacrifices and impact on your personal life.

Medicine does give back a lot of job satisfaction (at times) far more (so dp says) than banking.... I sometimes agree but do wonder when he gets his bonus how much that must compensate for poor job satisfaction ;)