£600 per pupil for every extra pupil studying maths in sixth form

There’s not a shortage of lawyers.

Apart from this, what is this massive push on STEM to the detriment of other subjects?

the massive push on STEM subjects to the detriment of Arts and Humanities really winds me up and I wonder is this yet another example of demeaning arts and humanities subjects

me too. However, much the government wants to push STEM subjects, and I do appreciate why, the simple fact is that not everyone can be a Maths teacher, engineer or work in IT. You still need people who are good at languages, writing, to become lawyers etc.

I can do my job with simple numeracy skills. I really don't need A level standard Maths (which is good, because I only did GCSE). Never in my whole life have I wished I'd done Maths A level. I have wished I'd done Latin though.

They've already dumbed down A-level maths: there is NO WAY Core maths should have gained recognition as an equivalent to the traditional maths A-level. And the kids will tell you this too. So not just my judgement

My take on it is that the Government wanted to be able to say they had done ‘something’ for education. In reality all this is is a PR exercise and to get those clamouring for better funding for schools off their backs. It is only marginally above smoke and mirrors and window dressing. Will some schools end up manipulating the data by discouraging numbers taking the subject for the year the baseline applies? If it is a success and actually costs the Government money will they quietly move the goal posts or scrap the scheme like they seem to do with most schemes that get good take up?

So all of the schools that stop at 16 will get no extra money AT ALL

and colleges that already have 800 kids taking maths A level will get an extra few pennies for the ones they cram into the corridors

SUCH a dumb idea

But division the per capita funding will be there anyway : that won't be new money... it'll in most cases be the school's usual students doing an extra qualification (core maths) or choosing A level maths due to the hard sell that will ensue over, say, French or biology.

Maybe they are assuming schools will also benefit form being able to sack all their MFL teachers and downsize their arts departments!

Maybe the government should start listening to teachers and former teachers and build a scheme based on what they hear, rather than introducing bolt-on patch-up panic measures fraught with knock on ill
Effects.

I’d teach one A level class for 18k a year. They need to try and tempt ex teachers people back in.

Admission, but they will also have the basic per capita budget for the extra pupils to pay for the teachers. The £18k will be on top of that.

My maths goes something like, if you get an extra 30 pupils to sit a Maths "A" level then in practically every school that will mean employing an extra maths teacher. The income is 30 x £600 which is £18000, which at present costs of good maths teachers is going to equate to about a 1/3 of a maths teacher with add on costs.
So I think if schools do the maths and also think about the need for extra rooms possibly and more equipment they are likely to come up with an answer that they will be worse of by taking up this offer.
Clearly HM Govs fag pack was not big enough to do all the calculations!

Roll up, roll up’ everyone with a Maths A Level (OK, a GCSE will do. Ok, go on then, a Brownie Badge for Arithmetic... ) enrol for a PGCE NOW!

But they will have the extra top up money with which to raise Maths teachers salaries, and so, in the mind of the government, making the job instantly irresistible!

Division- but the school needs to have a spare maths teacher in the first place! Recruitment of maths teachers is a huge problem already.

Yes, and by paying maths teachers more (as already basically happens anyway....) other teachers will leave!!

Presumably the theory goes that for every extra class of Maths students the school gets another £12k, on top of the usual per capita, so it can use that £12k to raise the salaries of Maths teachers and lure more in?

I agree the stipulation for extra students is madly unfair. And may be counter productive,

Yup... all of the above.

I think people are right that school's answers to this will be, and ought to be core maths. My DS was doing it at his first sixth form college before he swapped to a different school. Any student pursuing certain A Levels had to do it. Not a bad idea at all.

But that was a sixth form college so no threat to classes further down the school in terms of staffing.

He did report that the teacher was pretty rubbish.

Frankly, with all the frees are kids are now lolling about in because they only do 3 A levels, core maths is a good wheeze. The issue, as ever , is staffing.

This could become a bone of contention in schools around application times for A Level when heads of sixth form are 'persuaded' by SLT to strong arm students into maths A levels where there is anything like a vacillating child.

I can't see how that is NOT going to set departments against each other and increase the sense of blue riband and Cinderella subjects..and probably kill off some A levels in many schools

I know a young man who did Maths, FM and Physics at A level. That’s 3. He’s now doing maths at a very highly regarded university. Three A levels isn’t necessarily the issue it will be more about lack of teachers and too few students taking FM. Schools need to pool students which is actually what happened in the case above.

How do you determine “new” student? It’s very confusing. Do they mean converts after others have nailed their colours to the Maths mast?

For what it’s worth, when my elder DD was at school, the good, confident, mathematicians chose maths. The ones who felt overwhelmed and scraped an A* in the sciences and maths but didn’t feel Maths A level was for them and understandably felt other subjects, in which they also achieved highly, were a more natural fit, may now be pressurised into maths. A low A level result may reduce university options and top universities will be out. The best non stem students won’t risk it.

Non examined maths in the 6th form is a good idea but ultimately who wants to do a degree in a subject they don’t really like? Of course we could cut out half the history degrees to concentrate the minds of pupils into stem subjects..........

How about waiting for the details?

And yet again anyone who is either gifted in, or just interested in, any of the arts or humanities subjects are made to feel like they are less valuable.

This doesn't seem to be the case in reality, though, because we produce, for example, far more history graduates each year than physics graduates. (If I recall correctly it is roughly twice as many history graduates each year than physics graduates - and a bigger fraction of the physics graduates are international students.)

Parents/students in practice don't actually value STEM, to the detriment of the economy.

The point is that huge numbers stay on at 16-18, unlike in many other countries.

What is the evidence for this? In the US, for example, it is standard to stay at school until 18 to graduate high school - and students do need to do some form of maths until 18.