Should secondary teachers have to pass a subject knowledge exam before being allowed to teach that subject?

I think there is a whole host of variables to consider here. My degree is in one subject, my pgce another closely related subject. My first job was for a different subject and I now also teach another subject. All 4 subjects would fall loosely under the humanities umbrella and I have achieved results in line or above other teachers in the department. Probably because I enjoy all the subjects, wanted to take them on and received excellent support and cpd. Also the skills are similar.
I know humanities teachers that have had totally unrelated subjects put onto their timetable that they had no desire to teach and no support doing so. Not a successful outcome for staff or students.

cant

A quick look gives me this

www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/Browse/School-Education

but I don't know if its broken down further

Boney, is that possibe? I'm familiar with the English datasets, but not with the Scottish ones?

I'm just curious, because on the face of it the rule that a Scottish teacher can only teach their specific subject would be a challenge to very small schools, as to maintain a full spectrum of subjects (English, Maths, 3xScience, History, Geography, Art, at least 1 MFL, at least one DT subject, let alone RE / Music / Drama / any vocational subjects) would require 10 teachers - 8 if a teacher allowed to teach Science can teach any science subject. That would be a challenge for a school with only 90 pupil;s, as essentially (even with a fully teaching head / deputy) the budget for 9 students would have to pay for the salary and overheads of 1 teacher.

In England, at primary level, you need 25-30 pupils to pay for 1 teacher, at least in the 'low budget' counties I have worked in.

So unless there are specific 'small school' budget arrangements to pay for that number of teachers in Scotland OR pretty much all are employed part time OR they are allowed to teach across several subjects, I'm curious as to how it works - because without any of those things, any similar plan to allow teachers to only teach 1 subject in English schools could have unintended consequences, either in terms of schools running out of money OR only being able to afford to offer a very restricted range of subjects.

cantkeepawayforever

Presumably you will be able to look at their results on the governments website and find out what they teach and what their results are like.

So for example I've found a secondary of 90 pupils - the list of staff is quite restricted, so either there is some significant doubling up, or the curriculum is limited to the staff that they have.

I had wondered that, Noble - especially for very small rural senior schools, where maintaining a qualified specialist for each subject while maintaining an adequately broad curriculum must be something of a challenge?

sil was called in before the summer holidays and told she was teaching Spanish in the Autumn term. She didn't know one word of Spanish! She taught French. Nevertheless, come September she was standing in front of the class having learnt a bit in advance of each lesson. I would have been raging if I had been a parent if I had discovered that. (But said nothing because I am a coward!)

I also was speaking to a woman who was a TA at a local (not very high achieving) school. She said she was called in and asked if she could teach Maths, as they'd spotted she had A Level Maths. She was very nervous about it, as she had sat the A Level 30 years previously...

That being said, the dcs tell me I know more than a lot of their teachers but I don't have a teaching qualification so I'm useless.

Exacty, noble. I think we essentially agree - working across related subjects is entirely acceptable IF appropriate CPD is provided, but neither working across completely unrelated subjects, nor being given subjects at short notice without time for self-study and any critical CPD, is acceptable.

Stronger regulation to prevent this is a good idea.

However, by your own admission, the outcome of this would be redundancies or not offering subjects or not being able to make the budget balance - none of which are desirable.

Again, given my earlier example, if there is space and budget for a half time art teacher also teaching half time Textiles, but not for a full timer of either, then is it better to preserve the job, keep that teacher employed on a fulltime timetable OR to say that that isn't possible, so the art teacher must go part time and either an alternative Textiles part timer be found OR the subject be cut? Stringer legislation aout being used across subjects would not allow the pragmatic 'one teacher fills timetable by covering both' solution.

So Noble, if a Chemistry teacher teaches a particular class Science (all aspects) in Y7, is that 'selling short' the work of the Biology teachers and Physics teachers? Or is it just one possible timetabling decision - given that those same biology and physics teachers may well be doing the same for other groups within the same year - for 1 teacher to know a group well, rather than 3 teachers bobbing in to teach only a lesson or 2 for the group each timetable cycle?

If the school has no Textiles teacher (or if the specialist teacher has a full timetable, including both GCSE and A-level), and there is not enough work for a second full timer, is it 'selling Textiles teachers short' for the school to use an Art teacher or a general design teacher to teach some lower year groups, or would it be preferable not to teach the subject to some years or classes?

Teachers teach out of subject, not because they want to particularly but because of timetabling and allocations by the school. The onus should be on the school to provide the support and CPD to enable a teacher to take on a new subject.

The problem with taking on a new subject is not subject knowledge, as the teacher will make sure they are at least one lesson ahead of the students. It's the extra knowledge and little anecdotes, and being able to field left-field questions.

Agree it shouldn't be happening, but I don't think that we help if we start getting absolutist and saying 'nobody can teach a subject other than the one they originally qualified in' or 'everyone must take a test in the subject knowledge contained in school's current SoW for KS3 before they teach a lesson other than in their specialist subject to Y7 or Y8'.

A pragmatic approach that formalises a teacher's right to an allowance of study time and appropriate CPD before teaching a new subject would be a better thing to fight for.

any teacher can turn their hand to any subject

I think we have established that, except for trained primary teachers teaching primary age pupils, nobody supports this 'random' allocation.

In my view, this is referable to, for example, some subjects or some aspects of subjects not being taught in the lower years of smaller secondaries because of the lack of, or perhaps departure of, a particular subject specialist. For example, I would prefer Textiles to be taught by an experienced Art or general Design teacher than not to be taught at all, and I would prefer an MFL teacher with a degree in 1 language and an A-level in another to teach both languages rather than only 1 being available to some year groups within the school.

Penggwn,

I think that we have established that NOBODY supports a random allocation of a teacher of 1 subject to a totally unrelated subject, and where that is happening it is wrong. So Music / Drama teachers teaching Maths are, within the context of the thread, a straw man.

The question is whether teachers of 1 subject, particularly those with e.g. an A-level in the related subject, can teach a related subject that requires similar pedagogical skills to the early years of secondary school / final years of middle school where those exist.

With suitable CPD, I would contend that for 'related subject pairs' this is possible, and in many cases already happens with no comment (e.g. Chemistry teachers teaching more than 1 Science subject to lower years, rather than having a subject specialist for each part of Science).