Detention in yr 7 - harsh?

The problem is that children are very different from one another, so one child will shrug and "move on", and another will be overwhelmed by anxiety given the same treatment.

My daughter was yelled at very harshly (in her eyes) for being a minute late for PE (beginning year 7 in a large school, very anxious and confused about where everything was, and the process of changing quickly). I understand that PE teachers want to set up an atmosphere where children don't waste time getting changed, but they should be able to see the difference between a shy and frightened new student who struggles a bit, and kids who are fooling around and wasting time.

My daughter was scared of the PE teacher for the whole year, and actually ended up hating PE, which she had always loved in Primary. Another child would have shrugged and moved on.

It does seem a little harsh to me. Dd's just started secondary and they have been given out for talking whilst the teacher is, but not for forgetting homework or books.

I can easily imagine dd doing this so I am checking with her what's needed for the next day.

I think there is a positive to it in that at least she now knows detention is a pain but nothing to worry about.

pengggwn

as I said above, it is entirely possible to give a sanction for every little thing without it being an after school detention.

As I said my ds and dd go to two schools. Both have large numbers of kids on buses. Both have worked out punishment systems which do not use after school detentions as first point of call.

ds school has a black mark system. Every single black mark = email home with reason why. 12 black marks = meeting with deputy head and DH phone home and talk to parents.
Any serious incident (misbehavour type, not serious as in eg violence) = phone call home to discuss.

Note - the school manages to do as much as possible over the phone, they don't insist that parents come up to school. Why? because most kids are bused and therefore don't live that close.

In the whole of year 7, 8 and 9 they only got as far as after school detentions with about 3-4 kids. Pretty much every single kid did not get as far as 12 black marks.

They have zero tolerance over forgotten kit, phone use, homework not handed in, school uniform etc.

They manage it. Why can't other schools?

This whole comment was really in response to the issue of kids on buses and after school detentions. Some schools in our county have 80-90 % of kids on buses - rural areas. If a school has a different demographic, fair enough, but part of being a good head is knowing your particular school, and your particular set of parents.

Common sense on behalf on senior management is a very useful tool in parent school relationships.

Our school has an automatic homework detention for work not handed in. It means compulsory attendance at the supervised homework session (provided Mon-Thurs, open to all)

I've never thought of it as harsh. (Nor as a consequence of an Open Day! But behaving well in day X doesn't give you a free pass for a mistake at some other time)

I gave detentions to students who had helped on open evening

Bit harsh, we give house points.

They obviously believe she is a good advertisement for the school yet they given her two detentions this week!
A little over the top. It's just a detention.

I gave detentions to students who had helped on open evening. They are lovely students. They don't stop being lovely students because they forgot their homework. They've not forgotten since.

having seen 2 dds through senior school i admire it! be grateful. they are establishing early doors that the consequence is applied immediately. i bet your dd never forgets homework again and you will not have to nag her!

* The school has an Open Day in two weeks where they want her to represent the school and show pupils round. They obviously believe she is a good advertisement for the school yet they given her two detentions this week!*
She’s only human! They are not condemning her. She’s year 7 and struggling to get organised. Why would that stop them wanting her to rep the school?

Step - And what I'm saying is that whatever policy a school has someone is always whining. Enough people on here have already mentioned that they get endless grief from parents if they issue a lunch detention (me included at a school where a 20 min detention in an hour lunch was some horrendous act of cruelty).

I kept a child back for 4 minutes after the bell once to talk to them (because in said school parents were royalty and would excuse their child from sanctions). The child went on a wander after so missed their bus. The busses left 15 mins after the bell normally and were running late that day. Home rang up very confrontationally informing me that i had prevented her child from getting the bus and I had CAUSED her to leave work early etc. When she had finished being an entitled agressive idiot, i pointed out there was 10 mins between me releasing her child and the bus but no, 'my child doesn't lie. Are you calling him a liar?' And then it became obvious why her child had such a massive attitude problem.

Detentions for not completing homework / being routinely unprepared isn't draconian. It's just draconian is the word of choice in almost every local news article when some parent here or there doesn't like the behaviour system.

Some.schools are what I would say more authoritarian. It's not the type of place I would choose to work. But equally, I feel the increasing need to to myself every time I see some article or thread that's 'my child did X and was sanctioned. I don't agree. Should I complain or go to the press?'

really schools are a school parent partnership and schools just lose all the support and respect of parents when they do this
They are a partnership. But they are not there to design a school system around the needs of parents.
A school behaviour system is there to promote good behaviour for learning and sanction poor behaviour.
This idea of schools should bend over for parents to 'earn their respect' is the same sort of nonsense on another thread where people say that teachers have to earn the respect of kids before the child should behave.

Maisy - while I understand your post, please read mine a few posts up.

really schools are a school parent partnership and schools just lose all the support and respect of parents when they do this.

if kids are dependent on the school bus, then the school should work out a punishment system that is appropriate and proportionate, as my ds and dds school have managed to do. After school detentions should be seen as a sanction further down the line and NOT as a first line approach.

recognising the enormous upheaval after school detentions cost, and at the same time have appropriate sanctions to teach kids not to forget kit/homework etc is not rocket science.

draconian handing out of detentions for every little thing is really ineffective and does not have the effect you are looking for.

At dd's school there are different levels. The most minor one eg. unsigned planner, they just have to sit in a room in the teacher's department in first break. The teacher doesn't sit in with them s/he just gets on with stuff nearby in their dept. I'm sure they get to go to the loo.

so if detention was at lunch time, how long would it be? 20 minutes?
Leaving 15 minutes to line up get food and eat for the pupil. Who would then go home and complain they are starving cos they had no lunch.

Then as an adult would you give up your unpaid lunch to oversee detention?

Or how about parenting and ask the night before have you got x,y and z? It takes seconds to do this. And tone it down to the occasional have you got everything.

All these teachers complaining that they don't get lunch if they hand out lunchtime detentions
When lunch is short a lunch time detention is ridiculous for staff AND STUDENTS. Whatever the child has done, it's not worth making it difficult for them to eat.

On the times my son got an after school detention for a non homework reason it meant that I had to incur extra childcare, my other kids would have to miss out on clubs and we would all be stressed while my son sat in a nice warm classroom after school for an hour. For parents who are reliant on school buses it's just a punishment on the family
See the way it works is:

1. Don't get a detention
2. If child gets a detention and it's inconvenient then home speak to the child and say 'your actions have caused these issues and i don't want it happening again'.
3. The child sees home and school on the same page so doesn't repeat whatever they did.

Some parents don't get this and do that stupid thing where they inform the school their child wont be doing it.

In law, schools do not require parental consent to keep a child back after school for detention. Every school I've worked in does inform parents as a courtesy but it's not a case of asking permission.
If parents want to tell their child to not attend a detention it gets escalated internally and they start getting internally isolated and so on. (& those parents whine about their child being isolated etc)

Oh right. Hope you find somewhere better.

As I said I cannot sort things for her at school. They get a detention for pretty much anything.

Why? Because you said she can't get to sleep at night worrying she has packed her bag for school correctly.

Why? FrLuke. I can help her to a point but I cannot monitor every element of her timetable. She has to change things over in her locker and gets muddled-up.

I think this policy is having a negative affect on well-meaning enthusiastic students who genuinely want to do well.

brilliant Could you help her with bag packing and homework organisation so she doesn't forget stuff?

For parents who are reliant on school buses it's just a punishment on the family

ds and dds schools have a high percentage of kids who are school bus dependant.
I think this has a big influence on how they structure their punishment system.
They have demerit points, which build up to visit to deputy head, plus lunchtime detention and phone call home etc. THEN they get after school detention, which is a nightmare for most parents.

it is harsh for a generally well behaved child who makes a genuine mistake.

ds and dds schools would have more build up to detention.

But our local school would have given a detention, they have a strict zero policy policy and it is the only way they can enforece homework etc.

So, it is tough lesson for your dd, but if that is how the school works, unfortunatly that's it.

I am thinking of moving my DD because of this detention for every minor thing rule. I think Yr 7 is just too young. My DD has been crying most Sundays and cannot get to sleep worrying whether or not she has packed her bag correctly. It is causing her enormous anxiety and is having the opposite effect on her and making her less able to manage her stuff for school.

The school has an Open Day in two weeks where they want her to represent the school and show pupils round. They obviously believe she is a good advertisement for the school yet they given her two detentions this week!