Guess what? Mindfulness in secondary schools turns out to be crap

I had a really long post but I realise it basically just repeated a lot of christinarossetti 's and noblegiraffe 's previous points.

DDs school is offering mindfulness to Y11 atm, the (lovely) teacher is really upset that no-one is turning up to her sessions. However, there are queues of stressed, anxiety-ridden DC with panic attacks trying to access the externally provided counselling sessions, who are terrified they are going to ruin the rest of their lives because they'll have "failed" by not getting whatever the current benchmark no of GCSE grades is.

I spend a lot of time telling DD to nod and smile at everyone who tells her that this is the most important year of her life, and is the most important subject she'll be sitting next summer. There's definitely a lot more pressure on DDs year than there was when her sisters did GCSEs.

Agree with nocampinghere . It's no substitute for proper MH provision but can offer a few useful techniques for low-level stress, which we all suffer from at times.

I do also agree that mindfulness is the current "trendy" thing, and just as a few years ago there were hundreds of yoga classes offered in village halls etc, now it's mindfulness - and, of course, you have no idea to what extent the trainer has been trained themselves. It's one thing to take your chances in the village hall at 7.30 on a Tuesday, but quite another to subject whole rafts of kids to something when you don't know if the provider's credentials are good or has only been trained for two sessions.

I do know someone who has set up a mindfulness business and did get into a school, initially to train the staff. Talk about the kids being cynical - the staff were super cynical and only one member turned up to session no. 2.

Totally agree.

noblegiraffe You'd make a great educational correspondent. Though, do papers still have those these days?

clearly mindfulness shouldn't be used as an alternative for CAMHS or proper mental health intervention
however i do think it is useful to offer teenager stress management techniques -
eg reach for the blue sky above the clouds, the importance of letting it go, to focus on creative work for the pure expression of it (not as "work to be graded") . My DD would never have thought of those suggestions without the mindfulness classes at school. The importance of "being still" etc... Of course she didn't actually have issues with stress maybe that's why it was useful - more pre-emptive than curative?

My dd had MH problems. CAMHS did sfa twice. She did not need mindfulness at school she needed psychiatric clinical evaluation and treatment. Which she got because we paid for it. CAMHS offered group therapy for two hours at 10.30am for six consecutive weeks from 2nd October when she had started a new school and an A'Level subject that was brand new. As her problems were largely about academic achievement that would have been disastrous and it also breached confidentiality on two levels. Both 're the group nature and how she would explain things to classmates. New ones when she was settling in. When the issue was explained CAMHS suggested I ask the school to change their timetable!

As far as I am concerned schools are there to educate and to teach. The NHS is there to provide clinical care. I would like to see schools stand up against this. Resources need to be directed to the young people who need them. If they are being spent on mindfulness in schools then there will be even less to spend on young people who need proper clinical interventions.

As Christina Rossetti said much of young people's issues are because the emphasis has shifted from well educated to well qualified.

I didn't expect my child's teacher to sort out her MH issues, just as I didn't expect her GP to sort out her Maths.

I can crystallize this in money terms. I paid £35k for 6th form for dd. I was not going to jeopardise her 6th form experience by accepting an inadequate intervention. We ended up paying for specialist psychiatric support. Over an 18 month period probably well over £5k. DD was diagnosed with a Neuro developmental disability. CAMHS offered nothing. Once diagnosed DD was treated - it took 8 months privately even but there was also the ingrained anxiety and depression to deal with as well. Because she was both effectively treated, and wonderfully educated she achieved 3A* A'Levels which was pivotal for her overall recovery because it was the point when her self esteem healed. Education and healthcare can complement each other but neither can replace the other or do what the other is trained and paid to do.

I am at a loss to know what society needs to do to put this mess right but shifting responsibility from those who should be experts onto those who are expert in something is not the answer.

Because there are kids in school who arereallystruggling with their mental health and need access to expert services like CAMHS who are seeing funding cuts left right and centre and instead on focusing on resources to help them, money and time is being pissed away on the latest fad thatonce againhas been shown to be bobbins
This. Teachers are trained to TEACH.

I get annoyed on threads when anyone who has been to school suddenly feels qualified go presenf as some sort of education expert so I am equally concwrnes with the idea that a teacher aith 1 day training is expected to plug the gaps caused by slashing CAMHS.

With the best will in the world we are not qualified mental health professionals ans expecting us to do CAMHS stuff on top of an ever increasing remit kf teaching does students a massive disservice (and also undermines CAMHS professionals because 'hey anyone can do it if a motivational speaker talks to them for a day'l

Mindfulness is a stress management technique that some people find useful.

It's not a mental health intervention in itself, nor is it suitable to be used in some sort of mass prescriptive way.

It's a cop out from really dealing with issues, whether because of financial restraints or that SLT don't have a clue about mental distress.

After witnessing the fallout from this, it should have never gone into schools.
The whole be quiet, be still, let your mind drift and open that door, or doors.
The door is closed for often damn good reasons, and after the session ends that door may not actually close, and the person is then left alone to deal with the shit behind the door.

It may be beneficial to some, but not everyone. Because not everyone has the same shit behind the doors. Some people were perfectly happy to have those doors sealed shut.

Forcing a room full of people to do this when you don't know about their life is bad. CBT you have to undergo a full psychological evaluation to see if you are suitable for this or if other treatments are required. But yet mindfulness, yup anyone can sit in.

Sadly our Ed Psychologists didn't laugh. What's the harm? Several members of staff have since been signed off with various MH. Some have left altogether. A number of students already having issues are severely depressed. I think we were some type of guinea pigs.

Less than 2 years later thankfully it has now been scrapped. Someone listened to all the companies about how good it is and convinced everyone else what a good idea it would be. We even had the 1/2 day session and the one that introduced it, went on numerous courses to become qualified in this.

I find it telling that I teach in a school for students with social, emotional and mental health difficulties and we haven't touched "mindfulness".

Our Ed Psychologists etc would probably laugh if you suggested it.

It may have some small benefit for invested individuals with relatively minor difficulties but should never have been rolled out the way it has been.

I know someone who delivers mindfulness training in schools and noble is pretty much spot on in her opinion of how it's delivered. This same person is also a nlp practitioner, hypnotherapist etc as well as having a full time job. I gave up attempting to have any sort of sensible conversation with her when she claimed to have cured someone's Parkinson's
It's woolly, unscientific and only effective on people who want it to be effective. It has no place in school and should never be a substitute for proper mental health care and assessment.

I'm with you OP.

I once worked in a school which was systematically destroying its teaching staff's morale, confidence, benefits and frankly, spirit.

They were looking after us all though, they signed us all up for a free mindfulness app.

Just to show us how much they cared you couldn't log into it without letting the chief monster know what you were doing.

A half day INSET is not a replacement for proper medical intervention. If a mass strategy is appealing because it is cheap it is not a good strategy.

I think your anger is misdirected op. The problems you really want to discuss are the underfunding of education and health, and the appalling attitude to public sector staff.

Someone better tell Oxford Professor Mark Williams that his mindfulness research is below par with low quality evidence, lack of controls, self-reported outcomes I'm sure he will be glad to know. Better tell Sara Lazar the Harvard Neuroscientist as well that her research is just a loads of codswallop. Https:www.washingtonpost.com/news/inspired-life/wp/2015/05/26/harvard-neuroscientist-meditation-not-only-reduces-stress-it-literally-changes-your-brain/?utm_term=.e204867524ec
Thanks noble

What would improve mental health in secondary schools is a reduction of tests, targets, assessments, comparisons and an overall emphasis on data that forces SLTs to see students as 'data' and loses sight of the whole child. This would entail massive changes within central government.

A focus on the joy of learning in the here and now, rather than talking about GCSEs the moment children step into Y7.

A sensible, research and educationalist led curriculum that is broad, varied and flexible.

Exam formats that are flexible, student-centred and less cut throat.

Proper funding so that there are sufficient qualified teaching and support staff, who feel valued and respected.

Sufficient funds to resource the above, and provide test books, mend leaky roofs, fix broken boilers etc.

A stop to the endless tinkering with the curriculum, exam formats etc and space for proper thought and reflection.

A move away from some children being seen as 'more valuable' to the school because of their likely exam attainment, as the cost of others being seen as less valuable.

Properly resourced and staffed CAMHS teams that are able to offer prompt and if necessary long term interventions.

The list goes on and on and on.

Learning to breath in a particular way doesn't really cut the mustard, given the state of play at the moment.

Do you have any evidence that it is ?
eg companies advertising such inset sessions?

I'm not sure why you are so angry noble

Yes, CAMHS needs better funding
but effective use of self motivated talking therapies will reduce the pressure and deal with a lot of the worried well

how is that a bad thing

and who is talking about charging for mindfulness?
The "headspace" app is free for example

Lots of people (including me, and I'm very non-woo) have found mindfulness really helpful. But it's effectiveness must be dependent on so many factors (the skill and attitude of the person delivering it, the specific problems of the person trying to benefit from it, and their attitude towards it). It helped me loads, and that was just from reading about it on the internet and in a book. It's not easy to try and judge something like Mindfulness on the same basis as you would judge a drug or a surgery technique, but that doesn't mean it can't help people.

I'm a teacher and can see why introducing mindfulness in schools is tempting, but I can also see many reasons why it wouldn't work.

Not some chirpy trainer to come in, do a half-day INSET with teachers and for them all to be now 'mindfulness-trained' as usually happens
Abso-blerdy-lutely
I'm shocked if that is what is really going on

mindfulness is just another crank theory spouted by educational psychologists with no medical qualifications what so ever, imposed on teachers, who are forced to go along with it, mostly knowing it was a load of old crap, then dumped when the next big thing comes along...

same as growth mindsets, learning styles, brain gym, etc etc etc etc , the next big thing will also be crap, we already know that in advance, even before it has arrived in our training schedules, and it will be forced on us for a year or two, then dumped for something else crap, and so it will go on forever.