Struggles with analysing literature - any way round this constant problem?

I do agree with that pengggwynn but I am not sure that is what user is advocating!

user has several times referred to gaining 'top' marks by memorising whole answers. This definitely does work in GCSE MFL but not Engish lit. If only we could be so sure what would come up!!!

Another good YouTube channel for Lit is Stacey Reay.

The question also wasn't well worded ... I would have to double check but it is unusual before A level for a question to use the phrase 'in your opinion'

user you are being a bit offensive by dismissing the opinions of actual English teachers on here as not relevant. I am an English teacher with experience of teaching and marking and have a factually wired DS who just did his GCSEs.

You will NOT get top marks by regurgitating. The mark scheme is very very clear on this . it offers a range of things a student might say but is clear that any valid response should be rewded. Originality and flair are highly rewarded. there is also a hefty unseen element in Lit paper 2 9AQA) and in both Lang papers all material is unseen.

Your DC's teacher's response was not helpful unfortunately and sounds counter productive. Of course, there can just be downright wrong things to say ( eg when Macbeth kills Duncan the audience is delighted) but generally any valid response reaps reward. In fact, an examiner would report a school if huge numbers of students regurgitated the same , memorised answers.

Not everyone who mentioned York Notes said to memorise the pages : that was just you! I am all for York Notes etc. as a helpful tool to explain, clarify, support and assist.

It was the specific incitement to burn books that enraged me - not ethical disposal. There really are unfortunate overtones to book burning.

I didn't mean use York notes to plagiarise, I meant to support her learning!
I have an English degree and found them very useful at GCSE/A level.

Sure I can accept that some people have a sort of 'reverence' to old school books for reasons that I dont understand (maybe its a generational thing?). We will have to agree to disagree. Books are a medium to convey knowledge, its the knowledge that is important not the medium. To me disposing of old used school books (once a year) is no different than deleting an old text file on my ipad that I dont need anymore, so I can download a new file.

Anyways just this year one of my DC was doing a Literature test, question was, in your opinion... DC (despite knowing not to) actually gave their opinion. English teacher failed them because "despite what the question had asked they were supposed to give the 'opinion' that they had learned in class", which upset them a lot because that response didn't make sense.

So as several posters with experience of children like this have said , just learn the factual objective answers of other people from York notes, Mr Bruff or where ever and regurgitate them when needed to get top marks. I am not saying this is for all children, just the small number who are wired to objective thinking and can't comprehend (it really messes with their heads) subjective interpretation of opinions.

Mr Bruff by the way may not help. he s a bit of a cult icon , but generally speaking amongst high to very high ability students, at whom he aims his stuff. He didn't massively hold my DS's attention.

There is good advice on this thread : learning and 'regurgitating' is not amongst the good advice.

Incorrect, if the questions asks what is x, you will get full marks for the correct answer irrespective of not showing your working. If the question is show that x=y then the correct answer is showing the memorized proof.

And this is also not true. many a time my DS has lost marks for not showing working in GCSE tests.

You seem a bit obsessed with getting 'top marks' and think you can do this by memorising answers. The former is not what the OP asked about and the latter will not help in English Lit.

"Crappy literature" = closed mind. I don't enjoy reading Dickens, does that make him crappy? No, I am not the arbiter of what is good/bad, so I leave it open. But there is something symbolic about burning books that I find offensive. If you don't fine but you cannot judge me for feeling it is wrong.

user I was not remotely joking, no. I think it is beyond awful to burn books.

Children are taught to give the 'correct' opinion of the text as is expected by the examination boards mark scheme, they will be marked down hard for giving their own actual opinion

And that is not remotely true.

I worry about this with one of mine.

Most things Like Mr Buffin and York Notes have been suggested.

Wondered if by sarcastic productions might help more generally - seems to be at least interesting mine. Basically looking for patterns - I was surprised when mine watched the five man trope and started looking at their favourite shows and trying to identify who held which position.

Wouldn’t help with individual texts –( though they summarise a fair few plays and books) – but more thinking about why that was written a bit more.

Sorry if this derails

burning books is outrageous! You don't gave to keep them, give them to a charity shop, but to destroy them in this way is symbolic of a closed mind Why? Because I would say that comment is the sign of a snobbish mind.

Charity shop wont take them as they are old, well used and covered in written notes. School doesn't want them either as parents buy their own copies. No one wants them on Amazon as they are not worth the P&P. Its no different than the newspapers/magazines I use to light my living room fire.

You say closed mind, I say a rite of passage, freeing a space on the book shelf for new books more knowledge and like a reborn phoenix renewing a love for learning that celebrates overcoming difficulties whist acknowledging the stress they caused.

"Open your mind to new ideas dont get stuck with old ones"

Have obviously!

Sorry user but burning books is outrageous! You don't gave to keep them, give them to a charity shop, but to destroy them in this way is symbolic of a closed mind.

Piggy I hope your comment about Natzis was light-hearted, because I know several families that have end of year bonfires with unwanted school books. Its a great celebration and stress reliever.

I am all for a, "well rounded individual who get something out of all / most learning". But one persons idea of what that is, another persons banging their head off a brick wall. Not because they dont like learning but because they are possibly slightly autistic their brain is just wired differently.

Having been through the ongoing nightmare op mentions I can categorically say the pain caused in trying to force a child to do something they physically cannot do causes MH and behavior issues that destroys ALL learning and teaches a loathing and hatred of studying in general.

This is NOT University this is GCSE literature and that will be dropped asap by kids like this. Children are taught to give the 'correct' opinion of the text as is expected by the examination boards mark scheme, they will be marked down hard for giving their own actual opinion.

Memorizing objective answers might be hard for a lot of people but ime, for these type of children, it is a hell of a lot easier than trying to force them to analyze something that they just aren't hard wired to comprehend.

It might not be, "necessarily the actual answer to a given question" but you can shoehorn in enough related objective facts you have learnt to get top marks. And in these children its all about getting good marks and moving on with their life to subjects that do work with how they think.

We're not all Gradgrinds We are not talking about everybody we are talking about some children who like the op's and mine find subjective thinking almost impossible but excel at objective thinking.

Oh and FYI my DC like reading as well, its just imagining then analyzing subjective feelings, motivations and emotions ... of fictional characters that is impossible.

in Maths, your DD wouldn't get full marks if she simply wrote down the correct answer without showing how she got there. Incorrect, if the questions asks what is x, you will get full marks for the correct answer irrespective of not showing your working. If the question is show that x=y then the correct answer is showing the memorized proof.

Have you considered a tutor? In all other areas this would be fine but in this one I suspect it will trigger tears followed by worse. No offence to tutors but they would be teaching the same thing as the teacher. Which will compound the problem. That way of thinking is just alien to some children, their brains dont work like that.

As pp mentioned, Mr Bruff on Youtube. Learn his opinion, regurgitate, get the GCSE and then, Burn baby burn! Disco inferno!-

My DS is in y6 but have a bit similar issues, his view is the only one that is right. Author didn't know what they were talking about. School suspect he's Aspergers. He will answer questions giving his far superior and more detailed knowledge of the subject not helped the teachers say when the author is wrong.

Still dealing with this one but he responds best to breaking issues into small chunks and dealing with one at a time patiently but repeatedly. Also praise works better than any negativity.

I would discuss with the teacher as hopefully at secondary they will have come across this before and know how to deal with it. He is better with factual like grammar.

If she's getting stressed you maybe better to let her do it on her own and then the teacher will see what the issues are at least in the short term. If only you could study maths books in English DS would be fine.

that this might sound crashingly obvious but have you had her looked at for ASD / Aspergers at all?

It won't help her to get better at English Lit is she is on the spectrum but it helps everyone else (and her) to understand her needs better.

So in Maths, your DD wouldn't get full marks if she simply wrote down the correct answer without showing how she got there. Similarly, in Lit, she makes a point about a character and then proves her point with the evidence from the text that show how she got to that conclusion. And just as she wouldn't write up a chemistry experiment without using the names of the chemicals and the equipment, so she must use the names of the techniques she identifies in Lit.

Good advice ; I do this too .

It's not a lie, either. Feelings are not made up or lies. The events that happen in texts may be fictional but the emotional truth is there. You don't say how old she is, but it can take a while for students to be able to develop the maturity to recognise this, though. For many, it doesn't really click until sixth form, when they begin to have a little more life experience and begin to recognise the heart of some of the texts they study.

Have you considered a tutor? I'm an English teacher but would not be able to teach my own child. They often need someone neutral.

Go to basics though. Get her considering things like colour, and what it might mean (red=love, danger, violence etc) and weather. I like to use film examples as they can relate more at times (e.g. horror film, the bad stuff happens at night, in dark, rain, stormy, foggy weather. This helps set a tense/fearful/day/depressing mood).

Most texts st gcse will have these elements that can be discussed.

Also get her to select words and discuss whether they are positive or negative words. Who says that word. Does it being negative link to their personality at all.

Just a few basic ideas, poorly expressed here at typing on iPad with 3 year old jumping on me.

Ps. I do private tuition via Skype if you're interested ;)