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Original poster

A Level teaching time/ fuding help

55 replies

Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 11:47

Before going in to full attack mode with DS's sixth form, I want to get some facts straight. I am sure there are people who can help me on wonderful MN!

Can anyone explain how sixth form funding works? I recall hearing a couple of years back that schools are no longer funded 'per leg' as our head used to say, but that they have to prove they are providing a certain number of hours of 'education'? At my place, there was much discussion about how we would be able to prove this to DfE but I didn't pay much attention.

Now, DS has started full A levels in Spanish, business and politics. They have 12 x 50 minute lessons (all doubles) on the timetable per fortnight. In business and politics, two of these lessons (ie one double ) is unstaffed (we have this at my school so I am not unfamiliar with this concept, even if it is not the greatest idea in practice!) so essentially they are having 10 50 minute lessons (some of them are 55 mins : weird). less than a private school but I can live with it.

But here comes the big however..

However, in Spanish (where I also suspect the teacher is not qualified : she is a native speaker, young and not strong in the classroom ) there are FOUR non taught lessons, so only 8 x 50 mins with a teacher per fortnight. Since these are all doubles, he basically only sees the teacher 4 times a fortnight. This is unacceptable for so many reasons! In addition, in the large number of already untaught lessons, work hasn't really been provided or set and MFL is not exactly something you can teach yourself! In case anyone is wondering, this is it : the classes are not shared between two teachers.

I think the school is going to justify this by saying they have 12 lessons, but that's bollocks, isn't it? And it isn't the same as other subjects! I know in French 11 of the 12 lessons are being taught.

It's a shambles.

The one fact I do know is A levels are predicated on 360 hours teaching time and DH reckons that's about 9 hours a fortnight.

They really should have communicated this better, shouldn't they?

Advice? Help? Thoughts? Shared dismay?

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BringOnTheScience · 23/09/2017 22:14

Not wishing to derail the thread but ... how does funding work for 6th forms that do the IB? Required teaching is 26 hours per week!

5 hours each for 3 subjects
3 hours each for 3 other subjects
2 hours for Theory of Knowledge

Userwhocouldntthinkofagoodname · 23/09/2017 21:45

So the school takes money from the sixth form teaching budget, then gets crap results, so pupils stop going there and it becomes a downward spiral. That doesn't make sense, surly heads are not that stupid?

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 21:21
Grin
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noblegiraffe · 23/09/2017 21:18

are all open plan

Oh dear god one of those. They can use the money they're getting from your DS's sixth form funding that they're not spending on a Spanish teacher to buy some walls Grin

Horridemma · 23/09/2017 21:13

My local school sixth form in Surrey is delivering all A Levels on just over four lessons a week. They say 5 fifty minute lessons and one supervised study period. It is a new plan this year.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 21:07

As a teacher you'll know that kids fresh out of Y11 aren't the best at getting their heads down in the study room when no one is checking up on them or monitoring their work!

Sure do, noble !

His school buildings are all open plan though so they can't make too much noise at least. Silent dossing.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 21:06

pizza nope DS has big classes too. 30 in politics! Very limited choices (he couldn't do French with politics) and quite a narrow range compared to the school I teach at (which he didn't want to come to !)

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noblegiraffe · 23/09/2017 21:00

It's 9 hour a fortnight at my school. I think you can make the obvious comparison to French and say that you understand that recruitment for MFL is difficult but you need to know their plans to address this. Can they buy in some online package for the study sessions? Are they registered and supervised for the study time? As a teacher you'll know that kids fresh out of Y11 aren't the best at getting their heads down in the study room when no one is checking up on them or monitoring their work!

TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 23/09/2017 20:47

Our A Level students get six taught 55 minute lessons per week in each subject.

However, this is an independent school, so shorter terms...

pizzaparty11 · 23/09/2017 20:42

Pizza - your school offers a very high number overall compared to the norm.

BUT the downside is large sets (DDs physics set has 32 in it) and a limited range of subjects.I guess that's how, as a state school, they balance the books

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 18:32

I suppose I want them to acknowledge it's not enough and tell me what extra support and intervention they are putting in place for both the students and the staff member to prevent them falling behind.

For example, no work was set for the unsupervised lesson last week.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 18:30

Haha! Noble , he has just moved to this one from another one where he managed three days: that's why we feel awkward about raising any issues...

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noblegiraffe · 23/09/2017 18:26

It would appear that he's definitely under hours and you've definitely cause for complaint but if they can't get a teacher then what's the solution?

Not too late to look for another sixth form I suppose, but not what you want.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 18:14

I think we are probably supposed to be grateful they are staffing it at all and keep our counsel.

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 18:14

Agreed café and tiggy and , as you may recall café , Spanish is meant to be his best subject...

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Cafeconleche · 23/09/2017 18:01

DS at SFC has one x 3 hour class plus one x 1.5 hour class per A Level per week. Plus lots of unsupervised study periods (they expect high levels of self-discipline...) Plus 2 enrichment periods and a meeting with their tutor once a week. The one subject of DS's 3 A Levels which demands the most taught class time (IMO) is Spanish - and he's fluent!

tiggytape · 23/09/2017 17:48

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

pizzaparty11 · 23/09/2017 17:39

Some of these contact hours sound apalling! My DC has 5.33 hours per AS level subject per week actual contact and then on top of that she has 2.67 hours (loosely!) supervised private study in total and 2.67 hours 'enrichment'.

tiggytape · 23/09/2017 17:24

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 17:12

Thanks tiggy , I agree. the Bus and Pol work out as about 8 hrs 40. Bit less than ideal but liveable with. the Spanish is much lower.

The school's timetable is a bizarre thing really because the sixth form provision is several miles away from the main school. The poor teachers often have to drive from one site to the other. Thus the timetabling is arranged to facilitate them doing this in lunch hours , for example. I suspect the Spanish teacher cannot teach all the lessons because she is on the other site teaching year 10 or something. This may stop when the 'real' teacher returns from maternity leave but that won't be til next summer I reckon!

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tiggytape · 23/09/2017 17:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 16:31

Thanks noble. I think it's a bit of a grey area all this - so I may need to go into bat on the lower teaching hours in Spanish to begin with.

I'm not sure there is even ahead of MFL at the moment at the school.

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noblegiraffe · 23/09/2017 16:28

I think full time students need 540 hours of 'planned hours'.

"Planned hours are those that are timetabled, organised and/or supervised by the institution, and take place in line with the institution’s normal working pattern to deliver the study programme during the funding year 2017 to 2018"

The key point here is probably supervised. I understand schools timetabling unstaffed study periods on top of teaching hours, but using them to replace teaching hours is unacceptable.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/607246/16_to_19_funding_guidance_2017_to_2018_v_1.0__003_.pdf page 22.

Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 13:08

Sixth forms in schools definitely do have different funding. it's a notorious issue in schools with large sixth forms who are some of the biggest losers in a range of funding decisions and cuts of the Tory years...

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Original poster
Piggywaspushed · 23/09/2017 13:06

it's one double lesson per fortnight not taught in business and politics and tow doubles not taught per fortnight in Spanish. they clearly can't staff a session.

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