Further maths? Comp and grammar

But if you're looking at high ability kids of the ilk that gets 120 on maths SATs, then you're not going to be interested in the A-C, you're going to be interested in the A/A, and stuff like triple science and further maths, surely?

Then leave well alone is my view.......

because 20 and 30 somethings like to blame everything that is wrong in their lives on their parents- and in this case they would probably be right to do so

What a sweeping generalisation. My 20somethings and their peers from the local 'only a comp' don't do this and its not because their lives are trouble free. Some of their peers who went to the grammars/private are the most entitled kids I know. I'm sure MV.

Why did he it the 11+ if he didn't want to go.You surely are not going to let a few days at this comp sway you? that would be irresponsible!

Yes, so much better to push the less confident child into a environment which is geared up for the super confident.

The more sensible question to ask is what are the future options at the comp - in five years time Further Maths may be available, there will be 6th form college options or DS1 may not even want to do Maths.

OP: I chose the local comp over places they were offered at grammars/elsewhere. People told me i was a bad mother, I should be ashamed, my children would never forgive me etc. I lost a lot of sleep over it as I began to doubt myself.

They are all now in their 20s, did extremely well academically and are in good professions. But most of all they were happy and made local friends, enjoyed local activities etc. This was particularly notable for my eldest who at 11 was youngest in his year, a bit nerdy and not a natural socialite. At 26 he has more friends than I can count, many made at that school, has worked abroad in two different countries long term and makes a shameful (for his age) amount of money.

This was an all abilities comp with slightly above average percentage FSM. Don't let people tell that that grammars are better because they are grammars - it simply isn't true. Few children do well though if they are not happy at school.

How do high achievers do at the comprehensive?

It is odd that a Grammar doesn't get 100% 5 -C or very close to it, but actually those figures aren't the ones that are really relevant to Grammar ability kids.
Grammars are interested in the % getting A\A. I would see if you can get that comparison between the 2 schools, because those are the grades Grmmar ability kids are aiming for. What sort of % are getting those grades in the Comp? - it indicates if there is a decent sized cohort of the top ability and if the school is getting them to similar grades to the Grammar.

Sorry, broken link. Here it is again:

www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/school/136780

Is that 91% A-C?
I agree that's crap for a grammar.

BertrandRussell given this one has 92% and is RI, I have to agree:

www.compare-school performance.service.gov.uk/school/136780

91% is pretty crap for a grammar school....

Middleoftheroad But there's that nagging doubt about the academic side. A GCSE difference of 61 per cent vs 91 per cent...

Are you sure those % are correct OP? Perhaps it might be worth checking here:

www.gov.uk/school-performance-tables

Why would there be anything wrong with his life because he didn' go to grammar school?

because 20 and 30 somethings like to blame everything that is wrong in their lives on their parents- and in this case they would probably be right to do so.
Why did he it the 11+ if he didn't want to go.You surely are not going to let a few days at this comp sway you? that would be irresponsible!

"What are you going to say in 10,20 years time when he asks you why you denied him the opportunity of a GS education?"

Why do you think he might ask that in 10 or 20 years time?

What are you going to say in 10,20 years time when he asks you why you denied him the opportunity of a GS education?
If he doesn't like it, it is always easier to swap from grammar to comp than the other way round.

Something i didn't understand is that you said the grammars take the top 10% and that the grammar achieves 91% five A - Cs. So 9% of the top 10% didn't get five A -Cs?

does your grammer school have the 13+ this could give your son another chance at getting in the grammer

I think given the better choice of options, that SATs score and what you said about him being the only person in top set who knew the answer to those questions I'd be tempted to move him.

TheColonel makes a good point - if you're in a fully Grammar area, I can see that a lot of the bright kids are creamed off. It's not like that by us as there's just one super selective Grammar, so v.few kids get in. I still think looking at current school's GCSE results closely will give you a few clues though!

Blimey, that's not an easy choice! If he's happy at his new school though, I'd say there's a good case for letting him stick where he is. Okay so 61% isn't nearly as good as the Grammar, but your son's bright, so he'd easily be in that 61% and the Grammar should be shot if they don't get 91% as it's all about starting points. Obviously the comps have to build all ability levels to GCSE. The Grammar's have a massive head start on that front!

Why don't you have a look at his current school's recent GCSE grades- are there a fair few who get all high grades? That should show you if he'll have enough people working at his level/ to stretch him and challenge him. I'd bet there are. Then ask yourself if it's better for him to be a big fish academically there, or one of many in the grammar.

My son's at a comp that gets 66% five A-C's. He's top set, stretched, really enjoying being one of the clever ones and has genuinely really thrived there. His primary thought he had a good chance of getting a place at the only grammar near us, but we didn't even put him in for it. He's clever, but not extraordinary. I was similar and did go to a Grammar school where I honestly thought I was a bit dim as I was distinctly average. I didn't want that for him and we could see that there were more than enough v.bright kids at the comp near us, so just went for that. So far we've been proved right. Good luck though. I hope it works out for him.

I would move him to the grammar and I say that as the mother of a bright child who is happy and doing well at a comp. We are in a fully comp area. One child in dd's year at primary school went to a faith comp further afield, one (average ability) child went private, everyone else went to a local comp. Dd's comp has a wide range of ability but she is one of many bright kids. Your area has at least two grammars which cream off the top ability and it sounds like your son might be a bit of an outlier in his top set Maths.

You started this thread because as much as DT1 was happy in the first week you were concerned about the lack of triple science and further maths, your son is being offered the opportunity to go to a school which provides these options. Also you said that DT1 was the twin who pushed to go to Grammar School in the first place. Don't worry about him missing the first week, he will fit in just as he did in the comp, he is a very resilient boy from what you have told us. Also one other thing to consider. Imagine if DT1 goes to the comp next week having decided not to go to the GS and finds that 1 or 2 of the boys he has made friends with aren't there, so he says Mr X where are Jim and John? and Mr X says they have left this school to go to the GS. Tell him to take the chance that has been offered. You can leave GS to go to a comp very rarely does it happen the other way around.

Oh and good luck

What's the relationship between your twins like? Although academically level so far, are they competitive with each other? How do they compare themselves against their brother?

I ask those questions because my twins are incredibly competitive - but only against each other. I know that for them, they would have been distraught if their sister had got into a particular school and they didn't.

For good or for worse, my girls' self-confidence is complicated and related to their own performance as compared to their sister.

I have no other children, my girls have a generally very good relationship with each other but this would have been severely impacted if they had gone to different schools at age 11.

As it stands for you, given that DT1 is academically able and did want to go to a grammar school in the first place, then I would move him to your new offer grammar school. He will receive a more comparable education to his brother and will feel more on par in what he's learning and the cohort he will be learning with.

Take DT1 around the new school, affirm that it will be the better option.