Not allowed to do Maths A'level....with an A

The main differentiation that would be needed for the weaker students is time, which is one thing we don't have. I think it would be really useful if we could offer AS maths over 2 years to B grade students.

For example, in the first maths module, by Christmas students need to find the intersection of a curve and a line. They do this by solving a pair of simultaneous equations, one quadratic. A grade students will be able to do this from GCSE. B grade students might not have even been taught it. The reason B grade students might not have been taught it is that they do not pick up new concepts as quickly as the A grade ones. Yet they have to learn it from scratch and master it and apply it to geometry problems in the time the A* students just need to revise it and apply it to geometry problems. This is why the weaker students often flounder. Not poor teaching, just lack of time.

A grade students are in the middle. They'll have to work hard to catch up, but it's doable.

Yes, that was me! But you have explained the differentiation thing.

I think, sometimes, maths teachers should have different INSET. I deliver lots of quite generalised INSET and maths teachers often have very different viewpoints (the worst ones begin' we don't do it like that in maths' and then yawn!) but I do quite like hearing the input of the constructive ones : their insights into how to explain something to students who simply are not getting something are invaluable. Which is why I do feel many of them could (and can!) do amazing things with students at A level who are not just prodigiously gifted mathematicians?

My school takes A-level students with a B so I'm not averse to the great unwashed. But someone upthread was wondering why maths GCSE grade has a much bigger impact on A-level grade than other subjects and speculated it was because maths teachers weren't very good at differentiation. It's not, it's because of the structure of maths.

It's why the whole 'well done this piece of work is a level 6, to get a level 7 make sure you do more X and Y' marking policy is completely useless in maths.

I've seen it suggested that maths teachers should have completely different INSET to the rest of the school.

hmmm.... you can't write about a sonnet at all at A level without knowledge of metre, rhythm or rhyme,which should (in theory) be prior learning to build upon.

Not talking about adding to a basic answer with more detail but you'd have to see the mark scheme , I think, to get what I am explaining badly!

I do get the point you make - but I do also think that there are many maths teachers who simply don't want to have to teach 'the great unwashed' (I am quoting one there!) at A Level.

But there are many wonderful ones, too!

piggy I totally understand that having read other texts will help you make more fully formed and considered answers to King Lear (or whatever) but you can't solve simultaneous equations (or whatever, simultaneous equations are now Foundation GCSE) at all without the prior knowledge. It's not knowledge that can be picked up throughout the course. You have to know how to solve equations to solve simultaneous equations, it's not about improving your basic answer by referencing other sources.

Actaully, Noble (and I never normally take issue with anything you say), you are very much simplifying English Lit success there. Romeo and Juliet is not an A level text. And to do the very best at A Level, a broad, historicist approach is required from students which a) assumes mastery of Shakespeare from current and prior learning and b) expects knowledge of context and 'typicality' , best achieved by a fuller and wider knowledge of literature. So, in your example, a student would indeed write far better on King Lear with a full knowledge and understanding of the development of Shakespearean tragedy -and indeed a context of Aristotelean tragedy. Those students who do this best are the most able, and also the most independent and the most committed. Those who do least well are those who are unable to put the text in any sort of context related to their fuller learning or those who have never mastered being able to spot and explain rhythm and metre or figurative language , for example so cannot move up our hierarchy in our mark scheme .

I know that isn't the point you were trying to make about 'hierarchy' but I do think it's what scientist and mathematicians may not fully appreciate about English A Level.

Mine got a 4. He's just started a vocational course at college where if (and it's admittedly a big "if"), he does well enough he can progress to a full BEng at one of the universities that gets mentioned here for engineering, possibly alongside some of op's ds's former classmates.

His engineering dreams really aren't dashed, basically.

Maths % 2017 A* 17.5 A 24.3 B 21.9 C 16.2 D 10.7 E 6.0 U 3.0

Obviously copperbeech some of the further maths content would be dropped.

I did maths as part of my degree and feel strongly that encouraging more students to carry on with it post 16 is worth what some might see as dumbing the A level down a bit.

I didn't know it was the most popular A level but that's no help to the country if all those students are natural born mathematicians, we need to be bringing the overall level up imo.

As soon as the school made that claim I'd have asked for the evidence behind it. Seems bizarre otherwise.

The daughter of a friend of mine was refused a place on a maths A level course, and enterprisingly found a good online course and taught herself for a year on top of doing A levels in four other subjects at school. When she got an A in her AS level, the school graciously allowed her to do A2 there. I'd have been tempted to put two fingers up, they obviously only wanted her to do it in-house once they could see she was likely to make their league table results look good.

So the school are saying if you get an A* at GCSE level you are likely to get A-C/D at A level but if you get an A you'll be lucky to get that D.

I would want to check the statistics of how many students got A* at maths compared to the number of pupils passing A level maths as something doesn't seem to add up here.

My daughter's grammar school said this. It didn't bother her as she wasn't going to take Maths A level, but as a PP said, you only need 66% or so to get an A at GCSE - that means there's a lot of stuff the student didn't know. And if he didn't know 1/3rd of the answers/workings out for GCSE, why assume he'd get an A for A level?

They said that if there was anything on the GCSE paper you didn't understand, you were very, very unlikely to get a great grade at A level.

And some here will say "I got an A..." but check your actual marks - you might have been at the higher end of the A.

Post-curriculum 2000 that's exactly what was done, a bunch of maths content was moved to further maths and some further maths content ditched completely. It was because the 2000 reforms made Maths too difficult and take-up plunged. Since those changes Maths has increased in popularity and is now the most popular A-level.

Expect all that progress to be lost this year with the utter mess the Tories have created

I don't see the point of making A level maths so hard. Why not move some of the topics to further maths

err, further maths is full, actually

It's perhaps no wonder that there aren't enough students carrying on with maths if the A level is so hard that students aren't even allowed to take it without an 8/9.

I don't see the point of making A level maths so hard. Why not move some of the topics to further maths for the most able students to take and allow more young people to access maths for a further 2 years. It benefits no one at the moment imo.

And posters saying that they managed a good grade at A level without an A* at GCSE ironically don't seem to understand the statistical correleation that schools are using.

Sorry meant to say don't worry about him missing friends - DD's best friend at school is going elsewhere, but I know they will stay close, they already have things planned. Encourage your son to do the same maybe.

OP glad to read you have found somewhere else.

I am surprised at insistence on A* (or 8 I assume) for maths a level. We had one 9 and a couple of 8s at my school, not much take up there! But it's a good thing in general imo that schools are looking for higher grades - I know of a child (also at private school interestingly) who is doing a level with a C! He is going in to yr 13 and really struggling which is hardly surprising.

yy btw re MFL also being linear - hard to grasp subjunctive if you don't get the present tense.

The high performing state sixth forms here demand a 7 in Maths these days (and As in sciences, English and a few other subjects to take those subjects).

It was an A but they don't work in letters now. Unless in Wales or iGCSE?

Bog standard! It's not particularly big!

DS2's big standard state secondary school requires a 6 at GCSE for just maths & a 7 for further maths.

English A-Level also requires a 6 at GCSE & all other subjects require a B.

Rather than having to give up on his dream at 16, you should look for another school IMO.

I'm a high school teacher. That's a load of tosh! With good teachers he should absolutely do better than a D!

Copperbeech has what one might call some very unusal experiences of schools.

Personally, I would be angry at the school being so inflexible. Good for him that he is pursuing his dream of becoming an engineer.

He doesn't have to leave his friends behind altogether. My dd changed schools for sixth form and she continued to meet up with her friends from the previous school. True, they didn't see each other on a day to day basis, but they are all in touch via social media.