Sam Freedman wouldn't send his kids private

"It should also exclude all other selective private schools because they are de facto grammars"

Really? How?

Though I recognise in what you say a lot of the specious arguments people make about schools, of course in real life, if you have a choice at all, it's between one or two schools. The meta-analysis only serves to help people justify their choices. For me, the choice in the end wasn't a philosophical one (though some might argue it should have been). It was between two actual schools. I didn't need to defend all private schools or criticise all state schools to make my decision, nor did I need to criticise all private schools and defend all state schools. I only needed to look at the two schools I was choosing between.

Ontopof
you also get anomalous posters on here like me - I'm strongly opposed to grammar and private schools and any kind of religious or academic selection on principle, but am not very principled in practice, given my choice of schools, and so have sent my children to a selective private school

You certainly are not principled! Why on earth bother to say you are opposed to private schools if you send your children to one?

Noble - in that case an analysis of private schools should exclude all the over performing London private schools. It should also exclude all other selective private schools because they are de facto grammars. That leaves about the bottom third at best from which in the interests of comparing an apple with an apple we should also exclude those in leafy, educated areas.

I think it's that you get polarised views on Mumsnet in terms of the people who choose to post. The vast majority of people in the country aren't agonising about school choice, either because there's no point as there isn't a choice, or (far fewer here) because they don't care, or because (in most cases) they're perfectly happy with their school choice.

The most vocal posters will be those with a particular axe to grind, a particularly strong social or political conviction about education/grammar schools/private schools, or a particular choice to make.

That's why there are a disproportionately large number of threads on here about Eton or Winchester - not because most posters here have ever considered those schools, but because for the tiny minority thinking about it, the choice seems very high stakes.

You also get anomalous posters on here like me - I'm strongly opposed to grammar and private schools and any kind of religious or academic selection on principle, but am not very principled in practice, given my choice of schools, and so have sent my children to a selective private school.

People also post blanket statements like "Schools in London are so much better than the rest of the country and get much more money" which can irritate and inflame. Not all schools in London are good or outstanding or are particularly well funded - it varies by local authority.

I disagree Pride, my perceived mumsnet wisdom is that private schools are a waste of money until 11+. Posters are then very smug about their state primary children receiving senior school offers and regard prep school fees as a waste of time. Some even seem to view allowing their children to attend state primaries as some kind of charitable donation.
There follows a couple of years boasting of the great facilities and the "underwater stamp collecting club" etc. 7 years on and the very bright children who stayed in the state system receive great results and great Uni offers and those who achieved similar or not so good at a cost of £140k are a lot quieter.
I'm not sure where SF lives but I wouldn't bother with school fees where I live (SW London) if it was any kind of a financial stretch.

That is so funny Bertrand - maybe my unconscious bias is deceiving me.

However my perception is that most people defend state schools, rubbish private schools and attack Tory ideas of selection.

So having a go at SF doing the same thing read oddly to me...

"Very bizarre, usually Mumsnet applauds those types of comments..."
Mumsnet hates comprehensive schools!

This thread baffles me: picking over the possible motives and personal life of someone who is defending comprehensive schools and pointing out the deficiencies in his own (private) education?

Very bizarre, usually Mumsnet applauds those types of comments...

(Also his tweet is being massively misinterpreted by some - the piece he is commenting on is, as a pp said, all about a particular working class culture and mentality. Pretty sure you don't grow up with a parent who advises a Labour PM without knowing the working classes exist.)

to Bertrand...

Oh my children push up standards all right Some of their friends had never even seen houmous before they shared their lunches....

And do they 'push up standards'?!

There are loads in real life! Not me as it happens as could not afford private but think my principles would stand.
One of my brothers on the other hand could afford private for his 3 children and has chosen state. Not a state I may add that Mumsnet would consider leafy. He is odd one out in the street he lives [lots of gasps I understand] but not generally I am sure.

You mix with the wrong people, Karlos.

Ah the "I can afford private education but choose not to" contingent is out again! Love those guys. Odd (or not) that one never encounters them in RL.

Duh, I was replying to Giraffe's post on the first page.

But it is still pretty valid. To some extent education is a financial decision. If the state sector offers a good enough education, then use it. We would have done, perhaps topped up by a bit of tutoring, had we been offered acceptable options. But we were not. (Indeed DS did not get an 11+ state offer at all, a decade ago when there was a real shortage of places.) What happens is that better-off parents review at 11+ and 16+, and in between if things are not going well, and will switch their children if they feel they need to.

Giraffe, his DD (and Gove's) got places at our nearest state school. Guess what. Our DD did not. Ours was only offered a deeply troubled school some way away on the outskirts of Brixton, with a really difficult journey.

I would guess that the Cameron girl will leave for sixth form. Budget cuts are starting to bite in the State sector, and it is at this level where the difference is starting to show if parental ambitions are Oxbridge, medical school or a top RG. It is really difficult for schools to offer the support needed by a minority. Easier for privates, especially the better London ones, as they are selective, live and die on their Oxbridge etc numbers, and so are able to offer good support.

Dh uses that argument for against private school. He went to a comprehensive with a wide range of classes. I went to a small private.

Only thing is that if you actually look closely.
Dh 's friends he kept up with and chose to mix with at school are all white very much middle class detached big house type people.
My friends that I keep up with and mixed with at school include people from top to bottom. I knew a couple of people with parents with titles, but no close friends. However of my close friends one was a first generation immigrant, another basically bought her younger sister up on a caravan park while her dm did nothing. I don't remember it ever mattering at school. Only now I can look back and think "how on earth did they cope so well etc."

Yes, we had the assisted places scheme then, which did make it possible for people who couldn't afford it to go, but when he starts talking about comprehensives throwing all walks of life together I start asking about how many of his friends weren't middle class. I get responses like "well Tracy, she's the one who shouted hello across tescos that time." "Was she your friend?" "Oh no, she was in a totally different group? Never did anything with her."

But it's also easy to be morally right when it actually doesn't effect you. Dh gets his attitude from his parents-who realised the comprehensive wasn't going to suit his younger siblings, so guess where they went?

"Bertrand
I am slightly stunned that you didn't send your youngest dc to a private school (or move house) if you have been able to afford private school fees for the past five years."

Sorry to have stunned you! There are more people like us than perhaps you imagine.

I've a feeling that if his kids don't get into Fortismere (hardly rough street comp) then he'll have the option of a couple of faith based comprehensives which allocate on a lottery system and are frequently in the top 5 comps in the country. His kids won't be slumming it with the plebs for sure.