It is really feasible to do 4 "hard" A levels?

In Wales, the AS will still count towards the A level, whereas in England it will not.

It's explained here:

www.cardiffacademy.co.uk/phone/qualification-wales.html

Eirrar- how is it different in Wales?
We are in Wales and my daughter wants to do 5 subjects( Maths, Further maths, chemistry, biology and French) - of course she may have to drop one or two subjects.
I am really confused reading this thread...

Sorry, not if... but meant to say - assuming you're in England. In Wales, it's different!

Yes. You'd need to look at the specifics for your daughter's exams, but most papers the AS (if taken) does not count for anything towards the A level, but your daughter will sit exams next year covering both AS / 1st year work and A2/2nd year work.

For my subjects - One subject has paper 1 is the AS / 1st year work and paper 2 is the A2 / 2nd year work. Another subject will simply ask any questions across the two years' worth of work in the final A level exam.

Thank you for your detailed reply eirrar, so DD can continue with the course content and assume it will be examined next year?

Loincera,

For my three subjects it is exactly the same content - but the way it is assessed is slightly different. 50% knowledge & understanding/ evaluation at AS as opposed to 40/60% at A level.

There's a fair amount of overlap between maths and physics, and also kids who are genuinely good at maths don't tend to find maths and physics hard. There's a fair amount of maths in chemistry too. I think that combo is fine (assuming they want to do science!). Lots of kids do it. If I dropped anything it would be biology, but chat to the school.

At my large sixth form college, all students took AS exams. Whilst there are strengths and weaknesses to doing them / not doing them, I would say that some of the benefits to our students were...

• For those students who decided that A levels were not for them (and at a large A level college, there were lots!) it allowed them to leave and go to their apprenticeships with a qualification rather than just wasting the year. Many stayed on to get their AS grades rather than just dropping out completely.

• Or if they decided that a particular A level was not right for them, they could leave with the AS qual and then do a different A level in their second year as a "fast track option" (so do AS and A level concurrently". Again, many students do not know in the first three weeks whether an A level is right for them - so it allows them to change to a more suitable course. This is particularly true of A levels where students might drop down to something easier if they have struggled with AS and the A level gets much harder. For example, they might drop down from A level Philosophy to Religious Studies.

• For most of our students (largely working class, not overly academic) the AS exams gave a real wake up call in just how hard they needed to work. They took the AS exams much more seriously than the internal mocks that we had set. I know many students who thought it would be like GCSEs, didn't revise early enough or do enough and have already said that they found the process helpful and now know how much harder they need to work next year. Yes, it does seem that the whole of the last year I told them this was ignored and they now realise I was actually telling them the truth!

• For others, the AS grades are giving them a much clearer picture as to the level they're working at, and so what to apply for at uni. Of course, this year without grade boundaries and how it was marked...teachers do not really know how things are going to turn out. I know some of my students will be able to reassess their university applications. For some, this will be having more realistic expectations, for others, I think it will help them realise they can achieve and to be more ambitious in their university applications. Having the grades will help some of my students realise they can achieve and to apply for the more academic universities - particularly those who are the first ones in their families going to uni. It will also make others realise how much harder they need to work.

• Having attended all the inset courses paid and unpaid and then marked the papers for the board, I know some of the advice given to teachers at the inset was not the same as the priorities given to examiners in the standardisation meetings. I marked four contracts for three different boards this year. It will be beneficial to the students to see their responses in light of this new info and to guide them further.

• Having marked the paper, and having access to all their Exam papers, I will now be able to sit down with each student individually in light of their papers and look at problems they faced in the exams and set targets for improvement for A2. Some of these we naturally do, but I've always found other issues such as timings (particularly writing non stop for two /three hours) to be an issue that doesn't come up in class (when your lessons are not that long) or issues such as exam technique, dealing with revision etc... all advice given will be much more authentic as it will be based on the actual "trial run" of the AS grades. And yes, you can say that end of year Mocks could do this - in my experience, it does some of it, but not all - in part because our students tended not to take mocks as seriously, and then tried kidding us / them "but I would work so much harder for the real exam". For us, they did work much harder for the real exam and it will give us a much more accurate picture of where they're at and what support they need for A2.

goodbye I thought AS levels just covered the first year of the A level syllabus. Are you saying that they cover different topics to the A levels?

I am getting worried now. DD is taking chemistry, biology and geography BTW.

eirrar of course it's technically possible, if you don't mind time wasting and don't think that detracts from the A Level teaching, but it would be interesting for you to explain the actual value to students of taking the new AS in say History or English on top of the same A Level? Given that it takes time from the curriculum etc. What exactly does it do for the students?

Error

"Also I read that AS will typically be regarded as 40% of an A2 in the new system, something I read in UCAS while trying to understand the new points system"

Just to confuse matters further, the EPQ is still worth 50% of an A level in terms of UCAS points.

All 3 of my subjects are co-teachable between AS and A level. As others have said, fitting it all in is an issue, but you can have students do both. These are humanities subjects.

Donna I know what you're saying but I've already raised the issue of teaching time which you now mention yourself. Yes, absolutely. The AS specs are not co-teachable in the same way as the previous AS. The design of the papers in most subjects mean that it's not an efficient use of teaching time to do an AS and the A Level in the same subject. The tendency of schools to do that was/ is simply trying to keep as closely to the old format as possible but isn't what the new papers are designed for. I think we're in complete agreement it's just that it's taking times for all schools to go down that route, mostly for fear of the unknown/ uni reaction - but that's now becoming apparent.

@goodbyestranger Noble is right. They are theoretically co-teachable. Easily done in my subject with the board we chose. I do know that some subjects (my 'minor' subject of RS for instance) it was difficult to manage the content in the time but it has proved possible. I know many subjects are relieved that we are dropping AS (it gives the gift of time - internal exam period will not be as long as external). For my subject it has meant we can teach the papers in a more logical way and divide the teaching and coursework marking more fairly.

"noble you may possibly be generalizing from the maths particular since in the vast majority of subjects, with the greatest of respect, they are not co-teachable in the proper sense of the word."

In what way? DD took AS level exams this year and will continue with the A level courses in September. Are you saying that the subject matter she learned this year will not be examined next year? You are confusing me.

"Exam boards are not obliged to produce co-teachable A and AS level specifications, but they are doing so universally. Perhaps no surprise, given that this is likely to be what you want should you be considering AS levels. All of the AS and A levels that we at Ofqual have accredited so far are designed by exam boards to be co-teachable "

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/an-update-from-ofqual-on-a-level-reform

Whether schools can make it work in practical terms is a different matter, but the plan was that you could teach a class in Y12 containing both AS-only and A-level candidates.

noble you may possibly be generalizing from the maths particular since in the vast majority of subjects, with the greatest of respect, they are not co-teachable in the proper sense of the word.

The reformed AS levels have been designed to be co-teachable with the A-level.

Well obviously the system is new for students who have just completed Y13 this year so having several children go through earlier doesn't help, does it, as someone insisted earlier in the thread....

It just isn't especially complicated.

It was confusing to me because nothing was ever explained, and I am not familiar with the current system.You have had several children go through the A level process so you already understand how it works.

Everyone taking A levels at DD's school has had to do AS levels this year. DD took AS levels in four subjects, but has now dropped down to three.

That should read studied, not studies.

I don't see that it's confusing Lonicera.

Some subjects are still unreformed. No change.

Some are reformed.

The reformed subjects can be studies as a stand alone AS in Y12 or the stand alone qualification can be ignored. It's not co-teachable so probably best not to take a stand alone AS in a subject being studied to A Level since unis don't (or can't) care and it takes time out of the summer term which could better be used teaching the higher level curriculum.

The AS result doesn't count towards the A Level.

There is still merit in taking a fourth subject to AS as a separate qualification, for breadth, but lots of schools are not doing this in order to save money in the face of funding concerns.

"Also I read that AS will typically be regarded as 40% of an A2 in the new system, something I read in UCAS while trying to understand the new points system"

Only if you drop the subject. If you continue to the full A level the AS level doesn't count.

I think there is a lot of confusion about AS levels as some schools have dropped them and some subjects still count them towards the final A level. We have never had it explained to us at school. Most of what I know comes from here.

I know! I'm exhausted .

Yes but look how many more characters you've had to type :)

Well, it's not an A2 anymore as there is no 'A1'! It's an A Level.