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Original poster

Does your school set for English?

37 replies

RosaLuxembourg · 26/03/2007 23:13

I have various issues with the local secondary school where DD1 is likely to end up next year. One of them is the fact that they stream children from the beginning in Maths and other subjects but English is taught in mixed-ability classes all the way to GCSE. This is DD1's strongest subject and I was hoping she would have the chance to develop her interest in secondary school alongside other likeminded children. Other pupils and former pupils have complained that this not the case, that they are/were bored, unchallenged and spent a lot of time helping weaker pupils. The school openly admits that one of the reasons for the policy is that the weaker students do better in these classes.
I wondered if this is usual and what other people's experience is.

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hoorayitseasterhols · 03/04/2007 12:17

Thanks, will find out what she needs tonight as she is bringing english folder home handwriting pretty awful (they are at school this week). Not sure why given high target as english always her weaker area (does much better in maths and science)

sassy · 03/04/2007 08:14

English teacher (ex) here...

Level 7 writing requires above all things, detail.As a general rule, the more detail your dd can put in to her writing, the better the grade.Attention to the task set is important - look at the purpose/audience of the question (e.g.Is it an article for teens or a newspaper report) .
Spelling, grammar etc are important but it is much more important to be using high-level vocab with occasional errors than to use perfectly spelt but more basic vocab.
I will post more when I think of it. Prompt me with any definite qu's you have!

Blandmum · 03/04/2007 07:33

Sorry to bring it all back to you!

I have A level course work to mark....25 of 'em. I put it off yesterday as I have a stinking cold and feel grotty but ATM I'm off work and my kids are still in school so I must start today!

fizzbuzz · 02/04/2007 20:18

Oh God, just read that stuff from MB. Am currently on mat leave,and due back in May. and cannot face all that assessment and level jargon again.

Sorry for completely changing subject......

fizzbuzz · 02/04/2007 20:16

What is it about the writing. Is it use of vocab or grammar or handwriting?

Blandmum · 02/04/2007 16:19

here

Blandmum · 02/04/2007 16:18

Oh goodness, I'm not the person to ask, English not being my subject!

You could google the qca website and look at the English level 7 descriptors I suppose.

But you need to talk to an English bod, not me!

hoorayitseasterhols · 02/04/2007 16:14

MB do you have any suggestions for DD who has a target of 7 for english but can't quite get there (the writing bit is the problem)

fizzbuzz · 28/03/2007 21:05

It is very very hard, juggling plates all the time.

We have a really polarised intake, either incredibly bright, who question everything, and also not very bright who really struggle to do anything.

I also get practically no in-class support, AND we have a special V.I unit, although they tend to get supported.

I am exhausted most of the time, and generally feel like a chewed piece of string at end of the day.

Blandmum · 28/03/2007 20:51

I simply wouldn't know where to start with the ability range we see in our school.

And many of these kids are unsuported.

I taught two last year with reading ages of 6 who had no help in the classroom at all. they were in the 'bottom' set, and at least I could go at a pace that they could semi cope with, and spend ages ver the vocabulary.

How I would cope with them, and a child on level6/7 would be beyond me!

Don't thse children get terribly discouraged?

fizzbuzz · 28/03/2007 20:48

I have to teach all mixed ability classes, no choice in my subject.....

Blandmum · 28/03/2007 19:48

I don't know how you could teach unsetted classes. In year 7 (11-12 year olds) we have children with reading ages of 5-6 and those with reading ages of 14.

In maths we have some children who, at the age of 11-12 cannot tell the difference between a circle, square and triangle, and cannot draw them.

I am at a loss to know how you could inclusd them into a mixed ability class and not make them feel wretched.

fizzbuzz · 28/03/2007 15:16

Haven't read all this thread, but at the school I work at, all English is taught in mixed ability, and they get phenomonal results.

I think mixed ability English as opposed to mixed ability maths or science, is the recommended way to teach it, as it is less factual

confusedandignorant · 28/03/2007 11:14

seems to be the exams with coursework are moresuited to girls, some of the stuff in english such as insisting on romeo and juliet, when the boys may well prefer macbeth or even coriolanus with all the blood and gore

idlemum · 28/03/2007 11:07

Interested by the attitude of Fembear's headmaster re setting for English - ie his claim that 99% of top set would be girls. Is this the experience everywhere else? If it is then does it matter? If the idea is that it makes sense to teach a group of like ability then why should that not apply to English and why should exceptions be made simply because the majority happen to be girls? It would be holding back the girls concerned. I can't help but wonder whether if the reverse were true in say Maths for example would the headmaster have the same view? I know that some people see it as a problem that girls are outperforming boys at school but does this mean that boys these days are less able than they used to be or is it more the case that these days girls are encouraged to fulfill their potential and are not held back by outdated views from parents that girls don't need an education which was the view when we had country-wide selection but fewer grammar school places available for girls than there were for boys.

JanH · 27/03/2007 22:52

I am at lilymaid's post about English and Maths setting being linked - that's mad.

roisin · 27/03/2007 16:26

Our school experimenting with not setting at all for English last year (yr7&8), and it didn't work. The teachers all agreed that it was impossible to effectively target either of the extreme ends of the ability spectrum.

As a solution - 8 form entry - they have taken one pure set from the top and one pure set from the bottom, and then the rest are mixed ability. This seems to have worked well this year. They do a similar thing with yr8, then yr9 onwards is in 4 traditional sets.

It is difficult to target the Level 7s in English KS3 SATs unless you have specific teaching aimed at them: which you cannot do unless you have a properly set class.

RTKangaMummy · 27/03/2007 13:58

Ah I see

So there isn't any competition for the school to try to improve

Sorry I haven't got any ideas apart from asking them to change their policy

But given what you have written it doesn't sound like they will

Perhaps if enough parents ask there may be a small chance they will listen

Good luck

Original poster
RosaLuxembourg · 27/03/2007 13:41

It is not so much that it is oversubscribed Kangamummy as that we live in a small town so there is no other option. The school draws pupils from outlying villages too and is enormous (1500 pupils). I know lots of children are happy and do well there but it is not the school I would choose - as there is no choice I will have to encouage the DDs at home (as we would do anyway obviously) and make the best of it.

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RTKangaMummy · 27/03/2007 13:11

Oke doke

Is the school over subscribed ie do the school NOT need to change to get children want to go there?

Rather than an undersubscribed one that wants to change to get pupils?

If the school don't want to/need to change I don't have any more ideas

sorry

Original poster
RosaLuxembourg · 27/03/2007 13:03

KangaMummy - we are a very bookish household (both DH and I are journalists) and she gets stretched a lot at home - I have just started teaching her Latin at her request. My worry is that she will be bored in her school classes, as I know from speaking to other parents that this can be a problem at this particular school.
Incidentally the Latin thing was sparked by reading the Caroline Lawrence Roman Mystery books and she said wistfully the other night that she wished all her friends could do it so that they could use it as a secret code! I have noticed that even the private schools around here don't include it on the curriculum though.

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Blandmum · 27/03/2007 11:09

We set for English, maths, science and MFL. They start off mixed ability and are all setted by the end of year 7.

At GCSE are may them be effectivly 'setted' by which examination they sit.

Loshad · 27/03/2007 11:04

mine are at a selective independent school - they set for virtually everything, including games (actually v. good idea - those who hate rugby then aren't forced to be floored by the A team groupies) except English, and a few other subjects (RS springs to mind). Personally I wish they would set for English as well - benefits all the boys imo.

Lilymaid · 27/03/2007 11:00

DS is at local comprehensive where they do set for English - but the English setting and the Maths setting are linked so if you were hopeless at Maths you might not end up in the top English set!

RTKangaMummy · 27/03/2007 10:59

He will be in sets for English from year 9