Is this school govenor's take on Progress 8 scores correct?

Yes you were a teacher. Why deny it earlier?

And from your assertion that DfE isn't able to track individual kids comes from what experience exactly?

I've acted as exams officer for the SEN department as part of the TA job.

I was a teacher for 25 years, i have been a TA for 4 years, in 3 different schools, now I've taken a role as head of sixth form from September.

User, I know that you are currently a TA, in a school that doesn't charge staff for parking.

However you have worked as a teacher, and as an examinations officer/invigilator, and are about to become head of sixth form in a private school? Isn't that right?

Careful Titchy. I got deleted for troll hunting for complimenting User14 on her imaginative CV.

None of what she describes is reliable. On the SATs alone, my dc's results followed them perfectly effectively from the UK to a different continent. Bright but lazy ds currently getting his arse righteously kicked for subsequent indifferent achievement.

Goodness knows where this nonsense of random teenagers invigilating equally random imposter candidates comes from. Reputable exam centres have an exam officer, key chief invigilators, photo id on desks. It's not rocket science.

Spending the whole term practising SATs isn't cheating, it's just hothousing.
Ofsted won't look kindly it though.

I'm not a teacher, and I am not an examiner. I am a TA. (And a governor)

The whole iniquitous OfSted system has forced this dishonesty on schools.

I am a primary school governor and our school refuses to do what most primaries now do, which is to have Yr 6 children spending a whole term practicing SATs. Our children continue with a rounded education up until the last moment when they see a couple of SATs papers so that they know what they are. We refuse to compromise real education on the altar of assessment. We still get a good rating because the children themselves are so impressive in their confidence and integrity.

It is so wrong that children see blatant cheating going on - what does that teach them?

Parents and governors have struggled with the SATs papers - too much is asked of the children to no purpose whatsoever.

Snort!!!! So, you're a teacher, a TA, an examiner, about to be head of sixth form, and now you're a data controller for the DfE?!!!

What an illustrious career you've wished you had....

Confidence can't make up for ignorance, can it?

They have, by he way, really hidden the coverage data for progress 8 in the latest version of the data.

You have to note the total number of pupils taking GCSE in that cohort.

Then compare 2 or more schools using the comparison tool, which brings up a different view of the data.

Then look at progress8 by subject group. This has a column for number of pupils included in progress8 measure.

Divide this number by the total number of pupils in that cohort, multiply by 100, and you have the percentage. Just as an example, a well-known grammar school has a coverage % of just under 75%, as about 25% of its intake come from private primary schools.

User, what is the % for your school? Your suggestion would be 100%, because you see SATs results being internally assigned to pupils have none - what is it in reality?

And yes their system is very very robust and capable of doing so - as effective as micro-chipping them. you may be under that illusion, but it simply isn't

And as I mentioned upthread my school is not in our usual high position on Progress or Attainment 8 as we did IGCSE for both English courses and they didn't count (and the year weren't our best cohort by quite a long way). We had deliberately switched to IGCSE in the first place as it doesn't have coursework. We're more concerned with preparing them for A Level and then for University than with 'gaming' the system. Our high league table position is a side effect of a LOT of hard work from naturally bright students and supportive teachers.

No you can't user. You don't supply the progress 8 data. DfE does. And yes pupils are tracked. By the DfE. And yes their system is very very robust and capable of doing so - as effective as micro-chipping them. (It's actually very easy.... Whether you or any other parent is comfortable with the amount of data DfE has on your child is another thread of course.)

The DfE doesn't collect KS2 SATs exam data from schools (it collects Teacher Assessment data from primaries). Whatever made-up SATs data user has seen on SIMs doesn't leave the school.

So year 12 (last year's Year 11), included in Progress8 coverage but having no SATs results? Are you sure? What is the percentage coverage for your school's Progress8 value (it's harder to find in the current website than it used to be - but it is in there somewhere)?

It is irrelevant if you ever saw the data. The data isn't manipulated by you. It is done by the DfE. And no, students without KS2 data just aren't used for this purpose.
And FYI, we use mainly retired people for our invigilators. The chief invigilator is an old head of department within the school. If your school is employing substandard invigilators I would expect the exams officer to deal with that.
Phones are handed in on the way to exams. This is the same for all exams. We used to trust them for internals to have them in their bags but two students were caught. They failed that subject and now all phones have to be handed in. The boys are well aware of what would happen if they're caught and know it isn't worth the risk. But then when the teachers take assessment seriously, they do too.
We still do A Level coursework. And work to the rules. One draft then final version. End of. Seems to work exceptionally well for us.

its not unheard of in London, OddBoots, unusual for it to be the whole class, but it does happen. Particularly lower achieving classes, if they are set.

I have had children in my class with no KS1 SATs data, having transferred from a private school.

In our internal tracking system, they are given a 'nominal' KS1 result to enable the tracking process to work well.

I know that that result isn't 'real'. So does the DfE. Reading the data output at face value, you might think that the school has 'assigned' a KS1 result and is 'cheating' - but everyone concerned understands that it has no validity for external accountability purposes.

So the historical examples given by user are simply being 'managed out' of the system.

these are not historical examples, these are this summer's current qualifications, and doubtless next summer's too.

"like I said, I have had whole classes that have primary SATS data, in spite of never having attended primary school"

That sounds very, very, very unusual. What kind of education do the children in your have before they arrive to you then?

yes

user,

Internal data sheets? Or actual external data from the DfE?

I know that schools can assign a 'nominal baseline' for internal use, to enable tracking and target setting. That is normal, and in itself not remotely suspicious.

What doesn't happen is the use of that data for external accountability such as Progress8.

Can you swear that the data you have seen is used for the calculation of externally-calculated Progress8?

Just to say again - new GCSEs have minimal, if any, coursework. So the historical examples given by user are simply being 'managed out' of the system.

This is a good thing.

What I find interesting is that although there are a few examples of 'falls from grace' - that school in Telford that managed to get itself to the top of league tables by entering lots of GCSE equivalent courses - as a general rule the move to terminal exams has not been accompanied by widespread changes in the relative ranking of schools. the great ones with great results are still great schools with great results. the less good ones with poor results still get poor results. So if cheating IS going on, it is essentially a zero sum game - or just perhaps isn't as widespread as suggested...

like I said, I have had whole classes that have primary SATS data, in spite of never having attended primary school