Teachers say 14 year old is too quiet in class

Another adult with severe social anxiety here!

I would definitely try and knock this on its head, I really wish I had got it sorted as a child. All my reports were the same: very smart but extremely quiet and shy. The teachers didn't see it as a big issue because I went to a really troubled school (Only 35% A-C GCSEs), they saw it as a good thing I wasn't hurling staplers at their heads, but in a way I was just as disturbed as those kids just in a non-disruptive way.

It really does limit your life prospects. As harsh as it is, everyone is expected to be an outgoing, charming, persuasive presenter and if you can't present, speak in meetings, network etc. you will be seriously disadvantaged. I have a first and a technical degree with an A.I. related research project but I've found it counts for nothing with employers when they realise my social issues. I hate to drag down the thread but I have felt suicidal about it sometimes as all the therapy/CBT/mindfullness etc. doesn't seem to have had any effect.

I would try hard to get him out of this while he is still young.

Schools don't tend to push to diagnose anything, especially conditions like SM which aren't well-understood and tbh, not easy to understand.

In many areas there still isn't a clear diagnostic pathway - kids end up getting pinged back and forth between CAMHS and SLT with no-one taking responsibility for diagnosis and treatment.

Reinette, when you say this I did my work just fine, was in the top set for everything with no issues BUT staff were constantly on my back about speaking out in class, joining in etc I just didn't want to and insisting that I did made it a million times worse. this is unfortunately what can happen to SM kids and kids who are naturally quiet. Many teachers (not all, of course, but it only takes one teacher to set a child right back) just don't get that some children can't be 'disciplined' into communicating effectively. SM training for teachers would benefit a lot of students and schools.

So the first week in September when you have new students if one of them sits quietly and doesn't join in then that's enough for you to suspect they have an issue of some sort and possibly put a marker of some description on that childs file?

No, that's totally bonkers and not how students would end up with a diagnosis of anything.

No one is going to end up with a diagnosis of selective mutism just for being a bit quiet, or for being an introvert.

It's a bit late by then, you need instant feedback in a lesson about whether someone gets something

So the first week in September when you have new students if one of them sits quietly and doesn't join in then that's enough for you to suspect they have an issue of some sort and possibly put a marker of some description on that childs file?

Surely you give it a few weeks for them to settle in and during that time you will set and receive work in to you so you will actually have plenty of opportunity to note whether the student is struggling or not with the content of your lessons and plenty of opportunity to see whether they understand you or not. So why do you need instant feedback?

I would not answer questions in class because I hated that wrong answers were greeted with laughs and then piss taking for the rest of the school year from other students because you got 1 question wrong. I did my work just fine, was in the top set for everything with no issues BUT staff were constantly on my back about speaking out in class, joining in etc I just didn't want to and insisting that I did made it a million times worse. I cannot genuinely see any reason why teachers do not change the way they interact with quieter students. There are plenty of ways to do this but because teachers teach to 'the majority and not the minority' they are reluctant to change how they plan their lessons.

All I have gained from this thread is;

I am quiet and hate petty drama and hate being put on the spot so that therefor means I need a label and theres something wrong with me.

I also hate working in groups. I hate giving a correct answer but all the others in the group getting the praise despite doing nothing. I also hate when I know the correct answer but everyone in the group overrides me and gives a wrong answer and then I get punished/blamed for an incorrect answer. Group work teaches clever children to be quiet and not join in as they wont be rewarded and it teaches children who are shirkers that someone else will always provide the answers for them and they wont need to study/work harder.

Ive found this thread really depressing I have never in my adult life ever thought I would be labelled but I am being labelled because I'm selective about who I talk to, how much I talk to and what about and that I try and avoid unnecessary drama in life by keeping well out of the way.

But surely you'll know from their written work and tests, which you mark, whether they're generally understanding and doing well?

As noblegiraffe said, that's not the point. If a child is unable to ask questions about the lesson it WILL affect their learning and probably also their mental health. They might be doing well by writing and listening alone, but who knows how much better they could do if they could participate properly?

Also, if a child can't ask a question about the lesson they will be very likely to be unable to report bullying, ill health, personal problems etc which is also a safeguarding and MH risk.

It's a bit late by then, you need instant feedback in a lesson about whether someone gets something.

With quiet kids, I say to parents that the main issue is what they do if they don't understand something. If they won't ask me, won't ask the kid next to them and will just sit there and struggle, then there's a real problem.

However, if get no feedback and all from a student during a lesson I can't be sure they are understanding the lesson.

But surely you'll know from their written work and tests, which you mark, whether they're generally understanding and doing well?

at all, not and all! Grrr.

When I have very quiet / seemingly anxious students in a class discussion I take the 'everyone has to speak once' approach. It actually helps the louder children too because they learn to listen to the quieter ones. At least every couple of lessons I circulate while they work and make an effort to talk to quiet individuals or small groups.

However, if get no feedback and all from a student during a lesson I can't be sure they are understanding the lesson. That really isn't good for the child's learning and does suggest there might be a problem with social development. Of course I have to deal with that because my job is far more than imparting knowledge.

I was like this at school due to anxiety. Teachers asking people questions who don't have hands up won't help if this is why your son doesn't speak in class. Being put on the spot used to make me feel awful and dread the lesson.

You need to determine why your son is like this at school to see if there's anything he needs support with, but if he's doing well I don't see why he needs to volunteer answers in class.

human I disagree with your concept of labelling. If a person is autistic, do they benefit from that being recognized? I don't agree either that by telling someone they have selective mutism (which I would only advocate way down the intervention list, if nothing is working, until then I would work on an "anxious about speaking" format) you are placing an issue within child. I do agree that one of the core dangers of SM is a young person accepting their SM as their identity (in a way those if us who subscribe to a neurodiversity paradigm encourage for autism). However I think it is naive to assume that firstly, these youngsters are not already acquiring a bunch of negative labels, secondly haven't noticed they have an issue, and thirdly haven't got trapped in viewing their inability to speak as part of their identity AND have that identity imposed upon them by peers ("Tom doesn't speak, Miss").

One of the key reasons why this condition IS poorly recognised is at the heart of another issue you raise, in which I again have the opposite perspective: who is this a problem for? For kids with SM (not referring to OP's son, just in general) the whole problem is that they don't generally cause anyone a problem, except themselves. Autism, ADHD, semh etc are well known in schools because the children pose challenges to management by teaching staff. SM children just sit quietly, usually do their work. The fact that they are being left in many many cases hopelessly unprepared for independence and a fulfilling life seems not to register. And intervention can be introduced subtly and supportively. And a recognition of their particular problem is vital IF they are unable to pursue college or a job and need PIP payments.

If you start labelling the child you are saying to them the 'problem' is them, rather than you're ok, it's the teachers that need to change something or how they deal with you.

It's chicken and egg though, isn't it? It's a natural human response to try and discipline a child for perceived 'rudeness' - things like not saying please, thank you, or pointing to something instead of verbalising a request. Without a 'label' (or more accurately, professional diagnosis), the child will be at risk of insensitive and damaging behaviour from people they come across in their everyday school and social interactions.

It would be nice to think that every member of school staff will have the knowledge and sensitivity to understand the difference between a rude child / socially anxious child / sm child and treat them accordingly, but this simply isn't the case.

This was me at the same age. All through school in fact until I reached sixth form. My teachers were very frustrated with me.

But it didn't stop me achieving great results at GCSE and I went on to get a degree from Oxford and have a successful career.

My parents took no notice of the comments in my reports and for this I will be forever grateful because it would have just made things worse. I didn't want to join in because I was self conscious and didn't feel I had anything worthwhile to contribute.

My DH finds this very difficult to believe - I grew out of it!

Also, if you can get a child early enough, human, there certainly are specific interventions ("treatments" if you like) which help SM children but which you wouldn't need to do for "shy" children, because "shy" children warm up. The most well known of these is called "sliding in", it's a graded exposure to elicit speech.

I do get irritated when people who clearly don't have full expertise in an area dismiss the work of those who do.

I think there is a difference I just couldn't speak at school I used to clam up and if I had to read out I used to mumble and get the words wrong. I still really struggle with interviews as my nerves are bad I revert back to how I used to be. But I do ask for a spoon in a cafe now which I never would have done as a child.

human race you are correct in saying what works for SM children will also work for other children with confidence issues. However the point is, those are not strategies that naturally occur to all teachers. Advising teachers on how to deal with anxious communicators is certainly not rocket science. However it does involve a change of style to most teachers. It does involve altering the way you ask questions. It does involve not putting a child on the spot to speak, but also not laying off them completely. It does involve stopping labelling them with a host of other names, such as rude, stubborn, wilful, controlling, insolent. There is still value in teaching these strategies to staff. One of the key questions asked about SM kids is, "does this child's quietness make you stressed, rejected or angry" as that is one of the things that distinguishes them from shy children. Shy children generally give enough back that a teacher (who doesn't know about SM) can feel benignly towards them. SM children usually can't.

No one has ever said OP's child has sm. We have just raised it as something that needs considering.

I think teachers are getting a hard time here for doing exactly what they should do.

But what use is it for several teachers to tell the parents that their child is quiet in class? What can the parents realistically do about it? Do the parents know whether it's a real problem that needs professional attention, or what options there are to deal with it?

Badbadbunny as evidenced by this thread, knowledge of SM is sadly lacking, and knowledge of low profile SM (children who aren't completely silent) is rarer still.

It's so important that SM children are identified early

Surely the teachers should do that though, rather than all just making comments on reports to parents? Surely it's the teachers who are in the position to identify the ones who need intervention?

Absolutely oldbirdy. It's so important that SM children are identified early so that the SM isn't inadvertently reinforced by people treating lack of communication as a behavioural issue.

Also agree that children who are just naturally quiet but otherwise self-confident and able shouldn't be made to feel inadequate because of who they are, btw.

The problem with being so quiet that you are unable to answer reciprocally even when called upon in class, is that it is rare that this silence only happens in school. Children with low profile selective mutism typically can't order in a cafe, ask in the supermarket where the beans are, go to the doctor on their own, go on public transport where you have to state a fare or destination, or critically, attend a job interview. Those of you saying "it never did me any harm" or "no need to label these children" are missing the point. If the OP's son is just quiet - introverted - but he can do all the above things, then fine, he has no problem. If he can't, at the age of 14, then yes he bloody does have a problem and he has only a 30 percent chance of living a full communicative life if he doesn't get the appropriate help as soon as possible.