State Schools Eclipse Eton in rankings for A-Level Science

www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/college-major-rich-families-liberal-arts/397439/

Supports Noble's points a few pages ago.

You could also argue that a child who has been home educated and had the free choice over which GCSE/ A levels they took, to have advantage over those who had to choose from a restricted list/ blocks.
You could argue privilege for so many different cases and go on forever.

My dd school offer 100% bursaries to low income families, with fees being paid on a sliding scale.
If you earn 190K you pay the nearly 32k fees.
Most of the children there, in fact well into the 90%'s receive funding.
There are none I know that could afford to pay uni fees and fund their children.
They will have to do it themselves, with loans, the same as everyone else.
Even the richer parents who I know who have paid higher fees have just managed it and won't have money left to fund uni.
I haven't seen any evidence of any privilege ito being able to afford uni fees and living expenses. my dds friends parents were only joking last week when it comes to uni it might be a case of lift to the campus, and a hamper of food/ practical box etc.

What's a lesser course? PPE? Classes? Sanskrit? They'll take these degrees and still get the jobs. Or they just won't bother or the very bright will go to Harvard MIT and others round the world and have even more advantages It's nor the subject that gives you advantages,. And
who decides on a non interview selection process for a RG university which of the 7% should get the place to study English?
And you haven't answered the question about those who have little choice but to send their children to independent schools, or the MC parents who confirm advantages on their by moving to catchment areas or tutoring or those from outside the UK whove been privately educated/tutored.

Make them study pointless subjects like history of art?

I did a similarly pointless subject, English, and have done very well for myself. I have helped my husband put two children through private school. I have also had a fulfilling life and given back something to my community.

And I can punctuate and spell.

on 100% bursaries are few and far between. Fees with a 30% or 50% are out of reach for most.

But they are not few and far between at my sons school. 20% of kids are on bursaries and the majority of those bursaries are for 90% of fees or above. Even those children on smaller bursaries won't have mummy and daddy's money and connections to rely on because the cut off point for any bursary is £45k household income.
I know there are lots of kids at the school whose parents have made huge sacrifices to afford fees or are reliant on grandparents paying the fees. Average fees in my region are £12k per year for senior school.

Clearly a lot of Schools are not offering a significant number of 100% bursaries but the schools in my region do offer them - my son applied for two independent schools and was offered 100% bursaries for both.

No they won't they'd still be privately educated so would still have to compete on a more level playing field. The same percentage would gain access for the lesser courses and so on.

It would be a more equal competition and no harder than state kids have to contend with,easier in fact as they still have the advantages of their privilege.

Door still open but they'd have to fight harder. Yes they may not get the courses their parents have paid 100s of 1000 s of pounds for but such is life.Said parents could always run the gauntlet of the state sector like everybody else though.

So you restrict the number at university what do you think these children will do? Go down the mines? Sweep the roads?
Of course not they'll go abroad or go straight into the very jobs you want opened to the "squeezed middle". They'll still get the leg up you hate probably even more so, anyone under attack will fight back and no one has the means and resources and let's not forget the ears of those with genuine influence more than the very wealthy.
We have a friend who's a senior partner at a FTSE 100 company increasingly their recruiting non graduates and training them themselves. Another friends is a senior partner in a magic circle law firm she goes to a dinner party meet a man who's a senior party at a big investment bank Goldmans etc she gives his son three weeks work experience, 2 years later he gives her non university educated DS a job.
And what about non U.K. Citizens at top British universities in this wonderful fair etopua you envisage will they still be allowed to apply? Many of them have been tutored and privately educated in this country and beyond. Shall we restrict their numbers as well? Or do we want the high fees they pay universities?

The fact is kids from the best state schools are not getting the top jobs. That should tell you something.

I'm amazed that posters think the status quo in the link below is ok.

Tiny classes, Oxbridge/ the best eeducated teachers,amazing resources,supported prep by the high educated,supported study techniques by the high educated, top contacts,confidence, a bump up to the top of the list for the best jobs.....

These are all things the best state schools don't and can't provide.

Better info re uni admissions and a fairer system they could.

Identify not indenture!

I already did Dapple.

No Happy of course I don't.

I do however think there would be big benefits for the majority and more importantly a huge increase in fairness.

By restricting the percentage at university to the number actually educated in the independent sector! Because as we all know children in the independent sector are thick lazy good for nothings who've had all their achievement spoon fed to them by their schools so aren't worthy of going to a decent university.
Of course wealthy MC children at high achieving outstanding state schools be it grammar or comprehensive many of whom have parents who've had the foresight to move into catchment areas for these schools and or employ tutors havent had any unfair advantages confired on them. Or if they have they're harder to indenture and discriminate against and it might even cause a bit of a backlash amongst the hand wring squeezed middle.

Limplettuce how do you suggest restricting the advantages of the privately educated?

Limplettuce your proposals are just as much about self-interest as is a global economy which creates super rich people in certain sectors. We are basically all about giving our DCs the best chance whether that it is done predominantly at home or through the school we can choose.
I agree with Happy that for the very poor reaching the heights of the squeezed middle class is a distant dream.

Do you really think that a child from a very wealthy background having his "adavantages" confired on him by his school restricted will then be on a level playing field with a child from a squeezed middle family leaving a good state school? Are you really that naive? Are you really completely clueless about how it works if you've got huge wealth?

Convince me that restring the unfair advantages of those who are privately educated will make any difference to the squeezed middle or those the bottom. We talking about 625,000 children across the whole age range of which I believe at least 10% of those are not UK citizens.
Are we talking all children, just those from certain schools, what about those with SEN? Or the super super bright who's needs are not always met in the state sector, or those who live in areas where there are no school places, or those who's families in the armed services who get help with boarding fees or other professions who get fees paid if their families work abroad? Or those who work full time need to take advantage of the longer school days often offered by the independent sector? Or those who think their state options are crap? There plenty of those on here.

I doubt very much that restricting the unfair advantages a private education gives would cost much.

Also making life more equal for the Middle would improve the lot of those truly struggling. Fat lot of good helping the poorest is if doors are then slammed in their faces once they pull themselves out of poverty.

The Tory strategy of helping a tiny few (whilst they keep the advantages that help them)to keep everybody quiet isn't working and more and more people are waking up to it.

Limp it appears that our government believes financial resources are limited therefore it's those at the bottom who should be a priority IMO they are in a poverty trap that they rarely get out of. The squeezed middle are struggling but nothing in comparison to those on the bottom.

ILikeyourHairyHands Thu 06-Jul-17 18:28:48
A lot of independents don't do A levels either, not sure about Eton.

Obviously Eton does A levels or it wouldn't be in the rankings which is what this thread is all about.

Limo for the mega wealthy (let's face it that's who we're talking about not Mr and Mrs MC scrimping and saving to send their kids to a good local independent day school) paying for schooling is the same as paying for a Ferrari or you fourth or fifth holiday home or your 10 bedroomed house in Chelsea. It's all part of the package of having money.
If you restrict them they'll go elsewhere in the world their horizons aren't limited by town city or country border maybe you think that's a good thing but I don't think it is. We need bright individuals and whether you like it or not many children in the independent sector are exceedingly bright innovative and hard working maybe we need their money too if we are to maintain our position on the world stage .
There are over 2 billion Asians/Indians bristling with ambition hoping and waiting to usurp us from our global position. I can tell you they're not wringing their hands over which school you went too or not or how wealthy your parents are.
I hate discrimination in any form a child from any background leaving with A/A*'s at A level should be allowed to apply to any university and be fairly considered along side others with same qualifications.

Sadly from my observations anyway, it is the way you speak and mannerisms and confidence.
Take a child with text speak, poor eye contact, and awkward manners, and they just will really struggle during an interview.
Accent isn't the issue but poor vocabulary and expression really put people to the back of the queue during interviews.
I see some great cvs and then just feel frustrated when a person cannot articulate well.
As a result you get wealthier people, many from privste schools from both here and abroad, doing well.

Limplettuce what do you call rich? Presumably anybody earning more than you? Do you think so-called cultural capital including education and value placed on education requires high earning?

I think that a lot of MNetters went to eg Oxbridge to do non STEM subjects and so are very well educated and may be earning relatively little now( except for the lawyers). Unless they are dependent on somebody else's earnings they could not comfortably afford private school. Do they regret their education and cultural capital from studying humanities? I don't know.
It is a reality that some jobs attract less earnings for equivalent talent and education.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-35641061

Ah the same older forget about the middle( the majority) distraction. I'm not sure advocating fairness for all advocates forgetting about the poorest.

Sorry you can protest all you like but the fact remains however good your home life is,however well educated your mother is you will be squeezed out of top jobs by those privately educated.