St Olave's Mock test

I'm on the periphery of this 11+ malarky for various reasons, and fwiw, my observations are:-

• does it really matter if it was the same paper? It's unlikely that a child will have remembered all of the correct answers. Unless he got 100% the second time around and finished miles ahead of time, sitting the paper would still highlight areas to work on, and hopefully have demonstrated progress since the last test? (Although I do agree that the publicity should have been more explicit about the fact that all the sittings used the same paper.)

• the money goes to the PTA, which will then be spent on funding school trips, enrichment activities etc. I think it's a bit extreme to call raising funds for this 'unethical'.

• all any exam tests is how many marks the child gets in that exam on that day. The reality is that intensive tutoring/sitting lots of mocks is likely to get a child better marks than a broad, 'let's enrich their education' approach to the 11+. This makes it a highly unintelligent system, but it is what it is.

My son did dreadfully in the mock test too (btw, I worked out approximately how much money the PTA would have made from those tests and felt fairly queasy. Not to mention the v small sample papers they were flogging at the open day for £10 each). He actually did really well in the comprehension and horrendously in the rest. He's also top of the class in his very high-performing school. I believe it's the system that's at fault here, not the kids.

@mamslatts it's not a percentage, it's a standardised score, I believe so there is no way of knowing what the actual percentage needed is (it will vary each year & by birth month, or those born in September MAY need a higher raw score to get the same standardised score).

Thank you for this Mrs Patmore

Think along the lines of 'The Hobbit' etc - quality literature. The comp in the St Olaves test last year was 'Pig Heart Boy' by Malorie Blackmon. The Bond 'How to do Comprehension' is good. Also look on Amazon for how to achieve Level 6 writing books (old Sats levels).

Thank you very much MrsPatmore; I will get the tests you recommended. Also, what sort of literature should my daughter be reading to help increase her vocabulary, improve reading comprehension and verbal reasoning. Thanks in advance

The GL papers are the most useful tests I think. There are 8 packs with four papers in each pack. Speed is the key for the Kent and Sutton tests.

Thank you very much user 30224. I will try to get sample papers. St Olaves Parents association advertises the exam as the hardest compared to other mock test in the market.

Mamas, I think it is still worth trying.

Does anybody know of a good mock test for the Sutton grammars?what other papers, materials can we use to prepare DD for the exam?

user3009 we are in a similar position. DS is top in maths/english at primary and has tutor once a week but judging by his results I'm not sure he will get a place at grammar. Skinners is our nearest in TW but their average mark last year was 386 which seems to equate to about 91% (top marks 423). Kind of wish we had never started down this path now!

user 224 I suspect the St O's mock was harder than the Kent test but as it is a percentage of the cohort and not the exam it shows many of those you are up against did better in the exam. (but I'm still baffling over 'backwards paragraphs')

user 3009. Don't be disheartened. The St O mock exam may be particular to that school only and it is very, very hard for boys to get a place there. I know St O PTA advertises it as good for boys and girls, but don't forget it is a big money spinner for them. Can they really say their 4 part mock exam is comparable to other grammars' 2 or 3 part entrance exams - or is it actually harder? Have a look at the websites of the other grammar schs you want and and find out if they sell example papers for their entrance tests, as the contents/subjects differ widely from sch to sch. Buy for every sch you're interested in, usually £5/£10. My child, who was not tutored and also tops sets, just did non-verbal reasoning practice from a Bond book as had not done this at school and got a place in a super selective grammar. Ignore the St O mock test result, you still have a bright DD.

DD sat the test and we have now got the results which are disappointing, only 18 correct answers out of 60. She is top sets at school and the school reports are very good so we thought we would give it a go; she also has a tutor once a week but in general we have taken a relax approach as we don't want to stress her out; however I am now thinking we should stop the tutoring and don't get her to sit the exams as it seems to me she is not grammar material and we are wasting our time and money. Do any grammar parent have any advice?

thanks also to pettswood

Thank you user and Mrspatmore , we are mainly looking at Skinners or possibly The Judd (although so few OOC places now) useful to know we are probably looking at the same standard as St O's. Might have to start managing expectations..

Yes, LBB website shows 128 places (124 plus 4 choristers) available and 457 applicants for 2016. So that 1700 is easily whittled down.

Also, ostensibly St O's distance themselves from this mock test. However, ds found that there were some almost identical format mock test questions in the real test particularly in maths so it was a useful exercise.

The level for any of the super selectives without catchment is very high in London and the surrounding areas. Circa 1700 applicants sat for the first round last year (124 places). The maths is hard and the second stage is tough for English. This mock is a good indicator of where your ds sits in the cohort but, for those with lower scores, don't give up! . There is still plenty of time to prepare for the real test and a lot of the top scorers will have multiple offers and will go elsewhere.

mamaslatts - this is one of the problems with these type of mock exams run by the school/PTA. Does either the school, for its real entrance exam, or the PTA for the mock exam, quote 80% or above as "in the running for a place"? I thought St O didn't estimate on what the pass mark is. I may be wrong though. There are now two levels of entrance test I believe. St O does not have a sister school - yes, there is a girls' grammar in Bromley but there is no connection. St O is a CofE school and the girls' is a secular school in a large MAT.

Competition for St Olaves is very high, mainly due to there being no catchment. Some boys don't live anywhere near but do the test and will move if they pass. Kent pass (emphasis on pass) is far far easier than St Olaves but the score you need if you are OOC for Kent may be on a par with St Olaves, but it depends on the school you are aiming for. From my experience I've seen boys pass Bexley and get high scores in Kent but not get a place at St Olaves due to the very high standard, especially in the maths. DD is at the sister school and some have brothers at St Olaves and some are at Bexley or Kent grammars.

Sorry to hear he did the same test twice, the wording is a little ambiguous but maybe they didn't realise he had already done one test when he sat the second? More importantly, did he get a higher score the second time round??

My son did the mock test and we have just had the results. He did really well in some areas but completely bombed the English comprehension. He said that some of the passage was written backwards - did anyone else's child tell them this? Also, does anyone know the rough percentage needed to be in the running for a place?I know its a mock test and hard to say but just wondered if you had to be getting 80% or above (my random guess).

One last question, is St Olave's about the same level as the Kent test or more difficult?

Sorry for hijack was going to start my own thread ...

I suspect from now on the wording will change! Pity that PTAs have to raise money in this way, normally money raised by PTAs is given from within the school's parent community, not from prospective parents on the outside. A possible minefield of problems there. As you're still keen on the school try to keep communications as amicable as possible, but I think they will learn from this MN thread!