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Original poster

Rant about the new maths GCSEs. Michael Gove you tosser.

242 replies

noblegiraffe · 14/06/2017 00:06

I've got to write this because I've been fuming all day and I need to get it out or I'll never sleep.

So today was the final maths paper, the first round of teaching of the new GCSEs complete. What a total and utter nightmare the whole thing has turned out to be. The poor kids today looked like wrecks. Over 20 different exams spread over weeks has really taken its toll, thanks to all subjects being made linear. We had a revision class yesterday and they had nothing left to give, it was a really horrible ending to the course, trying to cajole them into squeezing in some last minute revision. Three papers for maths has meant it has been a real trial to keep the momentum going (not to mention the added expense of all the extra photocopying of 3 papers instead of 2). Next year it will be even worse as at least this year they still have the cushion of coursework in some subjects.

Due to the last minute scrapping of SAMs which meant the textbooks were out of date and useless even before they left the warehouse and school funding cuts which meant we couldn't afford to buy them even when updated, teachers have been scrabbling over the internet for resources to teach the new topics on the syllabus. The syllabus is unclear and teachers have been trying to find out what they actually have to teach from looking at the sample papers put out by the exam boards. Workload has been horrendous. One question on Edexcel Foundation caught lots by surprise because that style of question wasn't on any papers, and being an old A* topic, many schools hadn't taught it.

Some of the syllabus is just stupid. Memorising exact trig values on foundation? Really?

Before the most recent higher and foundation papers we had foundation (up to a D) intermediate (up to a B) and higher (up to an A) which were then replaced with foundation (up to a C) and higher (up to an A). Essentially what has happened is that we've gone back to the old system with an intermediate and higher paper, but got rid of foundation and are making all the weaker kids sit intermediate. There is nothing for them on the papers. Kids who would have got a G or F grade are having to sit 4.5 hours of papers where they can answer maybe 2-3 questions on each. What does that say to them? The first question on the first maths paper that they sat was (non calc) 2^4. The third was solve x/5 = 2 1/2. Those poor kids.

And the papers themselves? Awful. It used to be 'the examiners are looking to reward what you know, not trying to catch you out'. Well that seems to have passed Edexcel by. Questions which could have been fine had twists put into them for no reason other than to increase the chance of failure. Foundation kids for the first time have to solve simultaneous equations. But why put a question on which is going to trip them up and confuse them? Lots of fuss about trig being on Foundation so we dutifully taught it and spent lots of time on it because it's hard. It was on every sample paper they produced. It wasn't on the sodding real thing. What a waste of time.

My foundation class would have comfortably got Cs and be able to answer the majority of a paper without breaking a sweat. Now it's all very, very difficult and they hate it. We've had higher tier students lose all confidence, bomb out of the higher paper and be moved to foundation, capping their potential grade. Other higher students have decided that maths isn't for them and wont be taking A-level.

All this has served to do is to put kids off maths and make them think they can't do it.

And it's all very well saying 'the grade boundaries will be low, it will be fine, the same proportion will get a C as last year' etc etc. As a maths teacher who is interested in the maths education of the population, this is simply not good enough. You can't make kids better at maths by battering them over the head with stuff they can't do.

OP posts:
Oblomov17 · 14/06/2017 17:30

In our school, Year 8 is having extra tuition, as of this week, on both science and maths, to cope with the latest paper, which a pp posted about!!

user1489830224 · 14/06/2017 15:49

Thanks for your oversight on this Noblegiraffe. To think in this country we are supposed to be encouraging our DC to study STEM subjects. Employers are crying out for good maths candidates.

grufallosfriend · 14/06/2017 15:31

Noble, do you know how the new, more difficult (edexcel) Maths GCSE compares with the FSMQ (advanced level) Additional Maths?

user789653241 · 14/06/2017 14:46

"We are one of very few countries where maths isn't compulsory post-16"

I was wondering about that from reading some posts. So, in England, children can drop maths completely after 16/GCSE?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 14/06/2017 14:32

Bubbles maths has been linear for a while, and it wasn't actually modular for that long. The problem with saying 'oh the kids now not taking maths A-level are the flaky ones that would have probably failed anyway' is that we need those kids to take maths. Getting an E or a D at AS is better for them and the country than not taking any maths post-16 at all. Apart from that, many of the ones not taking maths aren't going to be flaky failures but are simply underconfident students, most likely girls. It's a known issue.

We are one of very few countries where maths isn't compulsory post-16 so any measures that reduce take-up even further are a problem.

OP posts:
SpicyTomatos · 14/06/2017 14:31

noblegiraffe - many thanks for the explanation.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 14/06/2017 14:27

Are you saying that questions such as 5 x 2.5 or 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 are too hard for a C grade at GCSE?

No, they are perfectly reasonable and in fact relatively easy questions for someone who is going to get a C at GCSE. The problem is that they were the first page of questions on the foundation paper which is where the G and F grade students are supposed to pick up their marks. And it wasn't 5 x 2.5, it was solve x/5 = 2 1/2 which is more complicated - kids who could do 5 x 2.5 easily would get the equation version wrong.
GCSE has to be sat by all students so there should be questions on the papers to cater for all abilities. A grade G/F is roughly an old level 3/4 (under expected level for leaving primary school). Last year over 10% of maths entries were F/G/U so this isn't a tiny percentage.

The paper starts with easier questions and works up to the harder questions, and those were the 'confidence builders' Hmm By the end of the paper students were solving simultaneous equations, plotting a reciprocal graph and stuff like that.

I would expect the better students to know basic sin / cos values of 0, 30, 45, 60, 90 and 180.

That's fine, but it's also being expected of the middle and lower ability kids. They aren't expected to know about or be able to manipulate surds, but they are expected to know that sin(60)=root3/2. Of foundation kids, a minority of them will be able to do basic trig questions and yet they're being expected to learn stuff that only comes in handy when you're working at a much higher level of understanding. It's pointless, especially seeing as most of them can't even do trig with a calculator.

OP posts:
ifonly4 · 14/06/2017 14:20

It's awful that there are some very capable kids out there who may not do maths at A level now - after working so hard, it's not good for their confidence. Also, our kids are the next generation who'll be working and we're going to need those skills gained at A level and above for certain jobs.

My daughter is very level headed and doesn't worry too much until she knows there's a problem. Due to this, she just takes the attitude it was hard as I find maths hard anyway - she's forecast a 7 and it would have been nice to have her saying she'd answered some questions well, rather than I put something down and maybe got a mark here and there..

LittleHo · 14/06/2017 14:20

Other countries use teaching systems where the child succeeds before moving onto the next level.

We have a system where some of them can only attempt a few questions before bailing out of the system. Madness.

user789653241 · 14/06/2017 14:06

Spicy, I was thinking exactly the same about 5 x 2.5 and 2^4....

Peregrina · 14/06/2017 14:04

I'm no fan of Gove but id still like to know why we are so innumerate as a country.

That is a valid question. We need to get away from people boasting that they are no good at maths. Gove's reforms aren't going to do that.

Bluedabbadee · 14/06/2017 14:03

My question too, @SpicyTomatos

BarbarianMum · 14/06/2017 13:53

I'm no fan of Gove but id still like to know why we are so innumerate as a country. I think solving that is more important then finding exam formats that anyone can pass.

YellowPrimula · 14/06/2017 13:45

It was me who made the comment about functional skills . One of the biggest problems is understanding the questions , given that many of the students taking the qualification will have SpLd wading through a question which goes on for two pages and being able to pull out the relevant information is difficult in itself . Especially for those with dyslexia or concentration problems. The information needed to resolve the questions is often hidden deep in pages of typeface littered with unfamiliar words about landscape gardens or decorating which phase a less than confident reader.As it is on a computer screen you can't go through with a pencil or highlighted pen and then reread etc

Plus all the colleges around here make you take it on the computer which means typing your workings in so it becomes a test of typing skills rather than maths . Typing maths workings using a normal keyboard is quite challenging .It also makes reviewing your answers harder. In a written paper it's easy to read the paper over at the end and maybe pick up the odd error that's much more difficult when going through a computer screen , by the time he has changed back through the screens my ds has forgotten what it said in the later one

It is often very poorly taught in very large classes oh one lesson a week , well over 40 at the college my ds goes to and half fail to turn up every week . The poor teacher hardly knows who is there from week to week and basically they just practice doing questions on the computer .

Anyway that's just our experience .

SpicyTomatos · 14/06/2017 13:38

Genuine question, so please be kind.

Are you saying that questions such as 5 x 2.5 or 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 are too hard for a C grade at GCSE? Or is it the presentation of such questions?

In all honesty, I would really hope that most 16 year olds could answer such questions.

Also, I would expect the better students to know basic sin / cos values of 0, 30, 45, 60, 90 and 180. They are all quite useful in many future subjects, and much better than using a calculator.

I may have missed the point.

BubblesBuddy · 14/06/2017 13:34

I think lower numbers taking Maths A Level may just be because the flaky ones have weeded themselves ut rather than get an E or drop out altogether. O level was end of Y11 exams so this situation replicates that position. Mine did iGCSE and that was end of year exams too.

mumsneedwine · 14/06/2017 13:12

I've just fed my Year 11 science students homemade brownies. Papers were 'ok' - to be honest I think they are passed caring. Back to class to try and motivate an exhausted year 10 class.

Madhairday · 14/06/2017 12:57

It's utterly crap, isn't it. I'm not surprised the numbers are lower, quite a few of dd's friends would have taken A Level maths but have opted not to because they are 'not good enough' when they were A/A* students. It's horrible. wtf did Gove think he was doing, he has destroyed education, I feel so helpless and angry about it. DD is tired and demotivated right now with 4 left to go, she thinks she did badly on the maths (edexcel higher) and on the English, even the english language which she's usually stronger on. This is not how it should be. It is running these dc into the ground at a time they should be feeling encouraged and built up and excited about their future.

Angry Sad

I also feel for all the teachers who are doing their best to get these kids through. It must be very demoralising. Thanks noblegiraffe for all your support on this board and the GCSE thread in particular, I can see it is so very frustrating and gutting for you Sad

Draylon · 14/06/2017 12:53

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 14/06/2017 11:36

Are there fewer pupils opting for A level maths next year noble?

The Mathematical Association are currently surveying schools to find out the lie of the land. It's not looking good, with some schools reporting that they won't even be running further maths A-level next year.

That's not just due to the GCSE putting students off (although that has undoubtedly had an effect), it's also due to Gove's catastrophically stupid decision to scrap AS-levels. Most schools are now only encouraging students to take 3 subjects with no option to drop after AS. As maths is seen as a hard A-level, fewer pupils will risk taking it knowing they can't drop it after a year if it goes badly. Three subjects also means students won't take further maths which was always seen as a 'fourth' A-level. Maths, further maths plus one other is seen as too restricted.

We might see some improvement in numbers once the results come in and students see they've done better than expected, but it's going to be hard to change their minds, especially with no cushion of AS.

Everyone involved in maths education is very worried. The last time they messed with A-levels, maths take-up plummeted, which has implications for the future economy of the country.

OP posts:
LittleHo · 14/06/2017 11:02

Just posted the following on a different thread. I agree with you noblegiraffe. It is a mess.

ds has a couple of friends who were going to do Maths A Level & have now changed their minds. I suspect that grade boundaries will be lowered and they will get similar marks anyway but by that time the damage to their self confidence will have been done.

I think the powers that be were trying to add harder questions to stretch the top 3% but it has backfired a bit. Maybe they could have achieved this with tweaking the Further maths GCSE instead.

I'm very confused about where the grade boundaries will end up especially at the top.

castleontheground · 14/06/2017 10:36

May is completely deluded bringing Gove back into the cabinet. Does she realise what people think of him?!

mumsneedwine · 14/06/2017 09:53

As a teacher and a parent of a year 10 I would do physical damage to Gove if I ever saw him. He has destroyed education and taken every once of joy out of teaching it - I don't have time to do anything but bash through the required stuff. The recent science SAMs had horrible mark schemes - answers that last year would get full marks got nothing due to the restrictions and specificity required. We did them as a Dept and we weren't getting full marks as we didn't realise we had to be mind readers and give the only words in the examiners head. We have complained. My poor DD is shattered already as every subject is trying to get through the syllabus and so piling on the work. This year group are going to be on the floor well before the final exams. It is crap. I am angry.

unfortunateevents · 14/06/2017 09:11

The whole thing is an utter shambles. It is disheartening to read posters such as Noblegiraffe who are obviously dedicated teachers and who have provided such help and support on the GCSE thread, so demotivated and angry. I completely agree that this year's students will most likely get whatever grade they were going to get under the old system because the grade boundaries will be tweaked but how does it actually help anyone if a student gets, say, a 6 in this year's GCSE while retaining a hatred of maths and the feeling that it is way too difficult, then in a couple of years goes into the workforce for an employer who is going to assume that this 6 implies a certain understanding of maths and is going to be surprised and disappointed to find that the reality doesn't match up!

It will be interesting, and I suspect depressing, to see how the numbers taking Maths A levels pan out in coming years, particularly among girls, who are already less willing to "have a go".

HibiscusIsland · 14/06/2017 09:01

That makes sense Keira, I hadn't thought of that. Poor kids.