DD (Year 8) really cannot do maths - what happens?

Lots of great suggestions here. I have been in exactly the same position with my DD who has just completed GCSE.

I would get her screened for discalculia. This will gain her extra time in the GCSE exams. Does the school offer Foundation level GCSE. If so, take this up, it does make a difference.

I found your comment that you don't care if she passes maths slightly alarming: she will need to keep retaking it till she gains a level 5 so best put plans in place to get it passed first time round! I would aLso advise against focussing on maths at the expense of anything else she is actually good at. Confidence is key and if she feels good generally about other subjects she enjoys she can take this forward to her maths.

What we have found is that repetition is the thing for DD who cannot "see" what a question is asking. A bit like rote learning she tries to recognise certain words and knows that the question is asking for x or certain diagrams so she knows it's Pythagoras or trig etc. We will see if this approach has worked when the results come in August!

Would something computer-based appeal more? We've used Doodlemaths (there are KS1, KS2 and KS3 versions) and my kids don't particularly like it (Squeebles is whizzier) but it has the fantastic advantage of adjusting so that they always get about 90% right. So it's really good for building confidence (if you get everything wrong it goes right back to basics) and it's set up so that you cover the whole curriculum in a logical order that builds on what you've previously learned.

Thank you, SuperRainbows.
We already use khan, and agree, it's great.
It's a shame mathswhizz only goes up to yr8, I thought their sample lesson was great. More fun than simple talk style lesson of khan.

Irvine, mathswhizz only goes up to y8. I thought it might be useful for op's dd to build up her confidence and help her to catch up.

If you wanted something for older dcs, Khan Academy is a useful resource and it's free. It is set to the American grade system, but I know lots of home edders who use this for their maths work.

I teach in an SEMH school and a lot of our students have difficulties similar to those you describe. We use a one-to-one intervention called "plus 1" and "the power of 2". I teach English but I have seen incredible progress in my tutor groups ability and confidence.

The books are not cheap but I think they are very effective. They also have the bonus of having been used in prison etc so are not babyish at all but still very basic.

Forgot to say, the site looks great. And thinking about changing from ixl.(good site but very repetitive.)

SuperRainbows, I just had a quick look on sample lesson for mathswizz.
But it only lists up to yr8.
Does it go beyond yr8?

Look up mathswhizz.
Fantastic online course that works out maths age, sets appropriate work and adds reinforcement when needed.

Dd is good at maths but just can't copy. This means that if she reads numbers they get jumbled in her head and so when she writes them down for calculations they get jumbled up and she gets the wrong answer. She doesn't have dyslexia but she does have severe visual stress. She uses coloured filters and is currently waiting for glasses which when she was trying lenses substantially increased her reading speed and stopped the letters moving around. You probably have already explored it but if not it is worth looking into particularly if she seems to understand the theory but gets the answers wrong.

It sounds to me very much that your daughter is not being supported very well by the school.Consequently she has probably convinced herself that she's not very bright.Do the school offer any extra help for Dyslexic children other than in the Maths.Such as teaching assistants in other subjects, one to one help with organisation,teaching learning strategies for dyslexics such as the use of Mind Maps etc.Does the School make her feel valued in any other areas?
My Ds was in this position but with a change in schools and the extra help offered plus some external tuition he has improved massively.The problem is unless helped at a very early stage ( in My ds state juniors it was totally ignored) these children label themselves as stupid when they're really not.

Alongside teaching/tutoring, can you bring "everyday" maths more into your daily life with her - the sort of thing that doesn't "feel" like maths!

How about shopping and in the kitchen. Get her to work out the best deals on the supermarket shelf, i.e. how much per tin of beans in a 4 pack and compare with price of a single, or comparing different offers, i.e. different makes with different weights etc. Or decide to bake a cake and get her to do the buying of the ingredients and weighing out etc. Or compare the price of the ingredients for a home made spag bol compared to ready meals. Do it "quietly" and she won't even know that you're in "teaching" mode.

Or if she wants to buy something major, get her to work out how many weeks it would take her to save her pocket money if she saved it all, or saved half of it, etc.

Small steps, but confidence boosters.

My OH spectacularly failed maths (U grade). Went to college to do a catering course and dreaded the "maths" side of it, i.e. portion control, costings, etc. But it all "clicked" when he saw maths in action in real life scenarios and he ended up with a list of merits/distinctions. Now, he's numerate as an adult and even helped with our son's maths homework, surprising himself that he understood basic algebra and trig when he was helping our son! He's even seriously thought about doing Maths GCSE himself at the local college to prove to himself that he wasn't "crap" at maths, but that it was down to crap teaching at the time!

I agree with pp that the maths teachers do not sound good and that there is no reason that she should be written of at this stage.

Does your DD like her tutor? It is all very well the tutor being qualified and experienced and all the rest, but does your DD like them?

How is her numeracy? If she gets on well with YouTube have you considered an online tutor via Skype? For someone her age and as far behind as she is, being engaged is the most important thing.

I love happygardening's story.

Also recommend IXL
It's a paid site but relatively cheap compared others, and can get access to all years.(Rec-yr13)
So you can work on current year group, and earlier years at the same time. Can practice without subscribing up to 10 question a day for free.

I have the same daughter! Also very resistant to me helping and quite defeatist. In terms of getting through homework I have found you tube videos to be really helpful. Somehow a geek on YouTube is much more paletable than my explanations.

They are just random people demonstrating and talking through KS3 tasks and concepts. You can pause, rewind etc etc. They have totally helped us. Most of them film themselves actually doing the task on calculators, drawing and the workings out.

I do recommend khan as pp. It's a great tutorial site with through explanation and practice.
But for tutorial videos, I also highly recommend this site. It's fun to watch and very easy to understand the concepts.

www.mathantics.com/

There is hope. My DS1 is absolutely terrible at math. He is super bright in terms of IQ in excess of 140 on last formal test but has very severe processing problems he was found 10 years ago not to have dyscalcukia but I'm not convinced quantity has no meaning to him, numbers are just marks on a piece of paper, he has had weekly/twice weekly private tutoring for math since he was 7 years old. Over the years I have begged bribed and shouted in my attempt to get him to even learn the 2 5 and 10 times table, he wouldn't know an odd/even number from a atomic particle. Frankly I never thought he'd pass GCSE math. In November of yr 11 I think he got 11% in the math mock he was in the bottom set of his so called outstanding high achieving academy a set where they children were written off, half the time the teacher who was the deputy head failed to turn up half the time! My DH went on the war path he had a stand up row with the head master and he got moved up four sets to a class where children were expected not only to get a C but even a B or A. In the March of yr 11 he got a C we opened a bottle of champagne!
I don't know what changed, his new teacher was very black and white, we with him pushed the idea it doesn't matter why 7 x7 is 49 it just is, and applied this to everything, endless practice of the same questions, he learnt technique but not any understanding but who cares? He's never done math again. Job done.
Interestingly his last teacher said if he'd had him since yr 10 he might have got an A!

Fantastic she is going to let you help.
Little and often is possibly better than fewer long sessions.

Start with stuff you are pretty sure she can do to build up success and confidence with you.

One trick I found works with my DDs. Say 'this might be too hard at the moment, but I just want to show you ....' Then they have the permission to not understand, and this seems to open them up more to trying to understand it.

The other thing you could do to start with is pick an easier topic, e.g. coordinates / symmetry / graphs and do stuff with that and avoid the more numerical topics. (The other one that could be good is angles and triangles).

Good luck.

I went to school in Florida, so a little bit different. But I have always had trouble with math. I barely was able to receive in normal diploma because in the American high school you have to take three years of math and for the normal diploma you have to pass at least algebra one. I got a C in pre-algebra and I failed algebra one twice so my final year I took algebra 1A and algebra 1B, had summer school tuition and also had very simple worksheets throughout my last year.

Strangely enough, I received the highest math score in the school on one of the Florida state tests. My math teacher said that the test was more on logic than on math . I took the exam while still at my special school, and only three students passed both the math and the writing section of the exam. I was one of the three. I still find it really strange and I think I had a lot of luck on my side as it was not a multiple-choice test.

On the other hand, I barely passed the math section on the AC T exam. I think I had a 17, which at the time was just barely a pass.

I run my own organization though and have done so for the past 10 years. I even taught myself the accounting basics I needed. Not easy, but a lot of repetition and hard work and creativity. If there is a way to put the math into daily life, it may help a bit.

However, does anyone know of any websites that might be geared to the lower ability dc?

www.themathsfactor.com/ - Covers the basics of arithmetic with a lot of practise.

Mine have done it during primary school but I know there was a secondary school student at one of the awards because Carol Vordman was great with her. I have a child with a poor memory - but the practise in this has made a hugh difference there are very swift with number bonds and times tables which makes it easier for longer calculations. Little bit every day and they've gone from struggling to being years ahead.

khan academy is free and is good for explanations.

I've seen mathswhizz recommended on primary boards here.

www.conquermaths.com/ - tried this - my eldest didn't click with it but again many like it.

If algerbra an issue dragon box is fantastic.

The issue I could forsee with an 11+ tutor is by definition, won't they be used to 'able' kids, so possibly less good with an unconfident struggler? However definitely use someone who isn't afraid to revisit primary level topics.

Sounds like the current tutor is doing fine though, just keep plugging away.

So much KS3 maths builds on concepts learnt at Primary School, and if understanding of those is insecure, there isn't a hope of progress.

My DD also 'hates' maths but found that with regular tuition to 'fill the gaps' and revisiting tricky (i.e all the topics) for around 15 mins a day - she has a schedule of difficult topics and works through it on a cycle - she has improved and managed to even pass her end of year maths exam! This was her first 'pass' in 3 years!!

She has also had an excellent classroom teacher this year who seems to be able to give her both techniques to understand the maths better, and also revision/study skills to learn how to revise more effectively. She could always opt for Core maths at GCSE if the Extended course becomes too much, but she is currently on track to manage more than a C, which would be a crowning achievement.

Good luck to your DD and reassure her that she is certainly not alone with this struggle!

I would really pursue some of the ideas above as even the non academic kids will find that they need maths and english at a decent grade to get anywhere. I teach the over 16s who missed out and aporentice hairdressers, nursery workers, office staff etc all have to attend sessions and pass in order to complete. So, if you can possibly help her achieve whilst at school she will be much happier later.