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Should child be refused GCSE revision session because of detention?

114 replies

youarenotkiddingme · 19/04/2017 14:33

DC year 11 gets a detention for not handing in a piece of homework - fair enough.

Revision session for core subject is announced for same day.

DC asked teacher if he could re arrange detention as thinks revision session would be useful.

DC told no because detention is punishment and they have to learn actions have consequences - again the consequence is fair enough.

This is only 2nd detention has has had in 5 years so isn't a serial offender iyswim?

AIBU to think that considering the change in curriculum and grading and the fact the GCSE's affect their immediate future the teacher should have agreed another day or even said he could attend the session as part of his detention for being mature enough to A) realise the session was important and B) have the maturity to try and rearrange not just get out of it?

This is only part of a whole issue that seems to have stemmed from a change of HT.

OP posts:
AmeliaLion · 20/04/2017 22:58

They are supposed get it from me, raspberry. So if they know they will miss a lesson for any reason they are supposed to find me in advance of the lesson to find out what work they will miss and what homework will be set. It is a faff to sort it out for them during lunch / break, but I strongly believe in extra-curricular so I don't mind. I normally know this about a week in advance, but almost certainly the day before. For work missed through unexpected absence (eg illness) they are supposed to copy up the work of another student and see me for any worksheets before the next lesson.

I say 'supposed to' because that is the school policy. Not all staff insist on students follow the policy which makes it impossible to implement properly and thus ineffective over the whole cohort. But the kids that do follow it tend to be the ones who do well in exams, and the ones I never mind giving up lunch or after school time to help. I'm starting a new job in September at a school where this policy is properly implemented. I can't wait!

RaspberryIce · 20/04/2017 22:38

equally our students are expected to find out what work they must do in advance of missing a lesson and all homework is set online as well as in class Who do they find that out from? Despite having 100% attendance still dd (12) missed quite a lot of lessons towards the end of last term for things like school orchestra rehearsals/day of taking messages around the school/music exam/trip to London specific to a school club. I don't think it's caused any problems but sooner or later it will and i want to remind her she needs to always get all the info she needs re lessons and hwk. Maybe i need to ask the school.

CrowyMcCrowFace · 20/04/2017 22:28

Sorry, x post OP. Fairly pointless detention then IMO.

Detentions for poor behaviour, fine. Detentions because a student hasn't completed a piece of work & needs to be detained to catch up, fine.

Can't honestly see the point - on an individual student/teacher basis - of putting a student in detention for missed work if they've already sorted the issue.

However, it's quite possible the school has an endemic problem with homework & is being draconian to change the culture. So in this instance, it'd be difficult to say 'oh well, this kid is generally reliable, honest misunderstanding, he's caught up now, let's let him off' without an outcry from everyone else who didn't do it & has accordingly been sanctioned.

Unfortunately it's just not always feasible to individualise every response to every missed homework every time. It'd be someone's full time job!

AmeliaLion · 20/04/2017 22:25

boney, probably the same as the serial detention kids in my school. Yesterday I needed to put a detention in for a child who missed a homework for me. He is booked up for the next 3 Mondays (plus the bank holiday), so he will sit his detention (and probably still not complete the homework) a month after it was due.

AmeliaLion · 20/04/2017 22:21

It depends on the school raspberry. In my school we have faculty rotas for detentions. Science (my faculty) are on Monday, and I take one per half term. So I can put a kid in detention for the next Monday, but only have to take detention once every 6-7 weeks.

I actually wouldn't allow a child to miss detention for a revision session, but equally our students are expected to find out what work they must do in advance of missing a lesson and all homework is set online as well as in class. Every child has one 'I forgot' opportunity each academic year. I have a column in my planner to record any such incidences and it isn't much of a faff. The usual suspects use that chance up before the end of September.

BoneyBackJefferson · 20/04/2017 22:20

youarenotkiddingme

So what happens to those children that get multiple detentions in the week?
Do they roll over to the next week or max out at 1 hr?

CrowyMcCrowFace · 20/04/2017 22:18

Well, in some schools they will be! & then some kids will be double or triple booked for multiple detentions on the same night anyway...

By year 11 in most schools there'll be revision sessions for various subjects running after school pretty much every night. It's a logistical nightmare however you slice it.

youarenotkiddingme · 20/04/2017 22:17

The school my ds friend goes to is centralised. They do 30 minute ones and 1 hour ones - one of each each week. Admin staff send the emails out to parents as teachers give info to them. They are run on a rota of teachers.

OP posts:
youarenotkiddingme · 20/04/2017 22:14

Friends ds didn't actually need to do the 'homework' in detention. It was set on the Friday for following week but he caught up as he'd planned with all missed work from that day over the weekend. Teacher went through the answers to the sheet in the fridays lesson.
So in detention he sat and read some more maths stuff and did his own revision - so even he admits it wasn't a wasted hour but he'd have rather been at the revision session.

My ds school put most homework online too. My ds has severe problems with executive function so anything not online should be written for him or he should be supervised to write it. If its not then he doesn't get detention (they check to make sure it's not recorded!) and then I get an email to say he has to do it with a deadline.

OP posts:
RaspberryIce · 20/04/2017 22:13

Oh i misunderstood. I thought detentions were centralised and not run by the teacher that set them.

CrowyMcCrowFace · 20/04/2017 22:03

Again, depends on the school!

Ours runs a system whereby 'detention' is for accumulating too many negative behaviour points in a week (not subject concerns or missed deadlines). That's on Thursday, which is the last day of our week, & nothing else happens after school that afternoon.

Then each after school from Sunday-Wednesday is devoted to various after school revision or catch up sessions - obviously that isn't enough days in the week to cover all subjects for all year groups.

So if someone has missed a key task for me, & I want them to catch up in detention - well, I've got year 13 IB prep Sunday, year 11 GCSE panic club Monday, department meeting Tuesday, KS3 debating club Wednesday...

I'd honestly rather they just went away & sorted out the missing homework & handed it in Grin. But if they don't, & I don't insist they come on Tuesday & do it in the room next to our department meeting, I'll be in deep poo if they then fall behind, fail & I can't show that I put them in detention to catch up.

At this point 'oh I've got Science revision on Tuesday, can I come on Wednesday instead?' is really not making my life any easier. Especially when they then skip Science too.

RaspberryIce · 20/04/2017 21:52

Google classroom sounds really good.
I suppose he wasn't trying to evade the detention but move it to another time that the school was running one. Maybe that would be logistically harder than I'm imagining it though?

CrowyMcCrowFace · 20/04/2017 21:46

It depends on individual schools.

Mine is quite techy so everything is on Google Classroom, or should be - a few Luddite colleagues haven't quite got their heads around it, but we are working towards...

It does make life much simpler for everyone. Students know what is expected, worksheets etc are uploaded so if they've lost the hard copy they can still access it. Parents can see it too. I can set HW in seconds from my phone.

I can also link useful revision links, videos etc, kids can ask questions if they aren't sure what to do. Quite often I set HW where they have to upload, say, a PP or whatever on the topic so everyone else then gets the benefit come revision time.

So the situation with OP's friend's ds simply wouldn't happen - he would have quickly seen what he needed to do.

I'm still of the opinion that missed HW generating a detention shouldn't automatically be evaded by 'oh but I need to go to a revision session' though, however the task was set. It's such a common cop out that schools do need to support the teacher setting the detention, else I'm afraid the piss taking & chuntering is just endless - & that takes up so much more time than just saying 'nope, suck it up'.

RaspberryIce · 20/04/2017 21:33

Do some schools put all hwks online? Dd's puts big projects online, but regular smaller ones are written in the planner so if they miss a lesson due to music rehearsals etc they are reliant on other kids. The problem with what happened to your friends son is that he didn't actually make a mistake let alone do something wrong. He asked his friend and the friend said there wasn't anything. Yes it's just a detention/suck it up blah blah, but he then has to miss a revision session and wonder whether he might have missed something in it that would have helped him do better. That might be wrong/irrational, but i can see why a teenager stressed about his gcses might worry about it.

CrowyMcCrowFace · 20/04/2017 21:21

I have to say absolutely fair play to your friend!

stuckin90s · 20/04/2017 19:33

I take back what I said about no going in.I was thinking this was a reasonable school, but this shows it isn't anywhere near that. You sound like a very supportive friend.

Trifleorbust · 20/04/2017 17:26

Of course he doesn't have to represent the school at events! I think during his GCSE year he should only take on as much as he feels he can manage. Your friend was right.

youarenotkiddingme · 20/04/2017 16:33

I think my friend has been quite shocked at seeing her ds so stressed. He's always been the stoic independent one who knows exactly what he plans to do and competes at a high level in his field.
Seeing him want to stop what he loves and wants to do in the future at school level has shown her how much he is struggling with juggling that right now.

Seeing the school just repeat that effectively they don't give a shit they are relying on him to win them a trophy opened hers eyes up. She already knew school had changed - hence why she didn't send her more anxious and more emotional younger child there!

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 20/04/2017 16:25

Two issues conflated here. The detention thing is defensible. The insistence that the DS continue with his sporting commitments despite his imminent exams is not.

Good on your friend for officially withdrawing his permission for sporting events. I think most Y11s across the country have given up or scaled back extra curricular activities at this point.

youarenotkiddingme · 20/04/2017 16:17

Oh dear lord that was an interesting meeting Shock

So we go in and HOY is there with teacher who issued detention. She had emailed ahead to say she'd be bringing someone along and was informing them out of politeness in case they wanted a second member of staff.

Basically HOY said she'd told her DS that he has a responsibility to the school to represent them at sporting events as he is part of their sporting reputation.

Friend gave her a cold stare and said they are absolutely responsible for providing him an education but when he's representing the school they put the responsibility for missed work on him. She said they can't deny that up until the missed maths he'd always done this.

She said that her DS should just suck it up that he made a mistake and got a detention and couldn't attend the revision session.

So friend said - oh, I thought detentions were for misbehaviour - not genuine mistakes?

The HOY was quite brash and kept saying that as a member of the school they expected her ds to represent them at the competitions from here on in as he'd agreed previously and that she as a parent must find a way to help him not be stressed over the GCSEs. She wouldn't actually listen to my friend saying she gets the whole detention thing was just mis communication but that itself has highlighted to her as a parent how stressed her ds is about the exams. And that as a response to that she feels missing more days out of school will add to that and so they've come to a decision together that athletics for school needs to stop.

I just say there half expecting the pair of them to start yelling at each other as neither was going to back down or discuss the situation.

Anyway it ended with the most impressive thing I've ever seen my friend do! She is one of these annoyingly organised people - she suddenly produced a copy of the letters she'd signed agreeing he could attend these events and a copy of the agreement you sign about photos, going offsite etc - she'd written the date and a comment on them saying she hereby withdraws all permission for ds to go offsite or be used by the school on the news letter or website or have his photo taken from this date onwards. She whipped out her phone and took a photo of where she'd placed it on the desk saying "as evidence you've received this" calmly looked the hoy in the eye and said that she is doing exactly what she's told her too - making sure her ds stress levels are kept as low as possible through his GCSEs and that she hoped the school would support her ds as well.

Me and the teacher were sat there catching flies!

Afterwards my friend said she had kept her trap shut since new head started and just sent her youngest elsewhere and kept quiet as she knew ds was leaving. But after the way the HOY spoke to her ds rather than ask him what he needed or offer support despite her saying he's admitted he's struggling that she said she was putting her foot down.

I have to admit I thought my friend was making a big deal about the detention thing at first - especially having read some very good reasoned posts on here - but having sat listening to HOY I now see exactly what my friends been saying about the school caring about their promotions and reputation and pastoral care being extremely poor.

Her DS is "well impressed" apparently very few people have the guts to even speak to HOY - let alone stand up to her!

OP posts:
BoneyBackJefferson · 20/04/2017 11:47

youarenotkiddingme

I would be very surprised if you were allowed in the meeting.

stuckin90s · 20/04/2017 11:17

I lie, there was one occasion when my daughter was upset about a teachers reaction; I rang the teacher and sorted it out. To be fair, the teacher had had a bad day, like we all do.Perhaps it would be better for him in the long run , just to not make a big deal out of this now though, it might help him to get used to and deal with frustrations.

stuckin90s · 20/04/2017 11:12

Hope you get it sorted. I am slightly jealous though that the son lets his parents go into school and sort things out, I am banned from stepping over the front doors, unless they have forgotten something really important.There are so many times when they have had issues with other children, and I've had to swear not to speak to the school.

youarenotkiddingme · 20/04/2017 10:57

HOY has asked friend to go in for meeting. I'm going with her. Her ds text from toilet earlier to warn her hoy on warpath and was not particularly kind to her ds earlier.

I'll fill you in after!

OP posts:
RaspberryIce · 20/04/2017 10:42

Let us know how the school responds op.

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