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Original poster

Bits of news on the grammar school issue

266 replies

HPFA · 07/04/2017 18:48

Two snippets of news

schoolsweek.co.uk/film-company-targets-grammar-teachers-in-recruitment-video/?utm_content=bufferb7668&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Unclear exactly why grammar teachers are being targeted to tempt people into teaching. Perhaps to tempt recruits by suggesting they can have a nice career only teaching the easy kids.

And another piece of news:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-church-england-not-interested-opening-new-grammar-schools

This is perhaps hardly surprising. Since faith schools are already so heavily criticised for being socially exclusive it would hardly do the C of E's image much good to open up schools explicitly targeting the already advantaged. Still welcome news to those of us on the pro-comprehensive side.

OP posts:
ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 16/04/2017 07:50

This is on the BBC today... makes one wonder whether any new grammars are being thought up because the government assumes they won't just be money pits and , therefore, they can 'prove' the success of Free Schools?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39608489

Original poster
HPFA · 16/04/2017 07:47

Wow, I just had the following exchange on the Guardian comments page:

*Diane Abbott is a case in point. She's against grammar schools, but sent her child to a private school. See what I mean. Champagne socialism, private school for my child but the state comp for yours. I don't blame Diane, and I admire her for putting her child's education before her career, but hen why expect the rest of us to send our kid to the local comp. Hmmm.

ME:You are aware that entry to grammars is through an exam aren't you? So most of us won't have the choice except to send our child to "the local comp" or secondary modern as it will be. Does that suddenly become a good school when it's for other people's children but not good enough when it was for your own? And if you think the local comp isn't good enough for anyone then wouldn't we be better putting in the resources to improve that rather than providing an escape route for a lucky few?

Very good point, thank you. As I said, I can't make my mind up on grammar schools but your comment has certainly made me think.*

People still exist who actually listen to an alternative point of view??What is the world coming to. I feel immensely cheered.

OP posts:
Headofthehive55 · 15/04/2017 22:41

It's very rural. Yes it's expanding but it's not a big school by any means.
A lot of children are bussed here anyway as is common with small villages.
Strength in numbers can help with ability to offer options and give students the possibility of learning with children of similar ability. I don't think that's a bad thing.

flyingwithwings · 15/04/2017 20:45

"My enemies enemy is my friend"

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 15/04/2017 20:21

True.

Original poster
HPFA · 15/04/2017 20:16

There are things about Michaela I'm not wild about but give her her due- she believes every child can benefit from her sort of academic education and she's sticking with her principles.

Gove's views on grammars seem to change according to whether he thinks the PM will give him a job though....

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ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 15/04/2017 20:06

Well, Indeed HPFA - Wilshaw and Gove also don't like the idea...

It's a funny old world.

Original poster
HPFA · 15/04/2017 19:52

A very odd day for Headmistress of Michaela getting positive feed back from lefty teachers

tomisswithloveblog.wordpress.com/2017/04/15/perhaps-im-not-a-conservative-small-c-after-all/amp/

And the article she is responding to (linked within the piece) is also very interesting.

But the simple fact is that if we had many thousands of grammar schools, Michaela would not and could not exist. I wouldn’t be able to find the staff to make it happen. And that would mean that all those children either at the bottom, or simply in the middle who are more than capable of doing intellectual work, might never do it. And social mobility for anyone but the brightest would no longer be a possibility.Schools like Michaelamake social mobility a possibility for anyone who chooses to work hard. Grammars make social mobility possible only for the brightest.

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bojorojo · 15/04/2017 18:04

The alternative, Hive, is to get more children and expand the school! Is there no need for new housing in your area? You must be unique.

Headofthehive55 · 15/04/2017 17:19

Yes it would have to be all Day.

noblegiraffe · 15/04/2017 15:53

You can't bus kids back and forth all day, the travel time would ruin the timetable. We do it in our sixth form but that's because they travel during lunchtime and free periods, it just wouldn't work at KS3/4. Realistically the kids would have to spend all day at the school to make it worthwhile.

Headofthehive55 · 15/04/2017 14:46

Won't it help small schools like our local one set more appropriately? It's a small school. Not enough children play instruments to have an orchestra / band. Mixed ability sets in GCSE for some academic subjects - the alternative would be running less options.

noblegiraffe · 15/04/2017 12:05

Yep, there's no mechanism by which a school can leave a MAT, no matter how much they might want to, no matter how much they might disagree with its ethos/decisions.

Original poster
HPFA · 15/04/2017 12:01

Noble

I had a Twitter conversation (with someone expert on MATS so fully believed him) where I found out that if a school is converted to a secondary modern by another MAT school becoming a grammar they can't do a thing about it. So they can join the MAT as a comp (believing the promises about help, support etc) and can then be turned into an SM, EVEN THOUGH if they had known that they would never have joined the MAT. That just seemed unbelievable. I mean, you join a gym which gets turned into a Bingo Hall and find you can't get your money back but have to stay a member????

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noblegiraffe · 15/04/2017 11:43

just how little oversight there is on what MATS get up to

Have you seen how many MATs have refused to justify huge pay increases for their CEOs? Public money scandal, especially in a time of huge budget cuts.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-secret-deals-behind-rocketing-school-ceo-pay

Original poster
HPFA · 15/04/2017 11:38

noble Frankly, it sounds like it could mean whatever anyone wants it to mean!! I suppose it's going to depend on whether a MAT would use it to a) get round the law and impose covert selection b) use it to keep the government off their backs whilst in practice not causing too much actual damage.

Incidentally, hadn't realised before my rapid learning curve in educational politics just how little oversight there is on what MATS get up to. Sounds like a scandal waiting to be exploited by a decent opposition. Except....

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noblegiraffe · 15/04/2017 11:23

HPFA The full quote from the DfE is "form a cohort that can be educated on a part-time basis at different sites, provided the pupils remain registered to their original school and receive some of their education there"."

So that could count pupils who are mostly educated at a different site and then have a week long seminar at the original school.

Does anyone know how this situation of bussing pupils with special needs to a different school was resolved? It looks like the DfE thinks it's fine.

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/fury-over-plans-bus-special-11409825

BertrandRussell · 15/04/2017 11:12

"This is an extension of setting and good I would have thought"

No it isn't. It's an extension of streaming and backdoor selection.

cantkeepawayforever · 15/04/2017 10:43

Local comp sets from PE - for most lessons, at least, though some such as fitness are not set - from very early on, much earlier than for anything else except Maths!

Traalaa · 15/04/2017 10:25

Headofthehive55, my son's comp sets for PE. Those into it/ competitive get to be in set 1.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 15/04/2017 10:19

Beans - I'm not sure. We are fortunate to have the SCITT programme here and often that supplies the new teachers. My HoD is a little, well, snobbish, about academic backgrounds so is complicating matters for us. Maths struggles to find people to do Further Maths. However, other than core subjects we generally do alright.

bojorojo · 15/04/2017 10:12

It is extended to PE. Schools usually have school teams. Those who are not good at sport are not selected for the teams. No-one has ever batted an eye about this form of selection! It is usually a win, win, win attitude and the poor performers are excluded.

Just one correction from an earlier post: It is Structural Engineers who design bridges. This is a branch of Civil Engineering but requires a further qualification. Yes, there are shortages in all sorts of STEM posts.

You cannot, however, make a linguist do STEM A levels. It is simply not possible for everyone to do STEM to a high level and there are plenty doing these subjects already who are second rate. My husband has employed a few who cannot cut it in the workplace, but have all the qualifications. They have no business acumen however and make basic mistakes so they are a considerable cost to the company, even after extensive training.

There is a need for people to understand different cultures and bring a mix of experiences to the workplace. Speaking another language is only part of a linguist's skill set. They have lots of other skills too and these should not be overlooked by any progressive country.

Headofthehive55 · 15/04/2017 08:07

This is an extension of setting and good I would have thought. Let's hope they extend it to PE!

Original poster
HPFA · 15/04/2017 06:55

Noble

The TES has a slightly different take

twitter.com/tes/status/852916894181052419

Use of the word "part-time" seems interesting. Possible for a MAT to do something as innocuous as special week long workshops for most able pupils in different subjects? Probably most of us wouldn't have strong objections to this.

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noblegiraffe · 14/04/2017 22:28

The NUT are going to legally challenge the government over schools using advertised grammar streams to get around rules against grammars.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-39589911

The most interesting bit of the article:

"The Department for Education says that multi-academy trusts can already stream by ability across their schools, with these ability groups being taught at different sites - and the consultation on grammars will not affect this.
A department spokeswoman said: "Streaming pupils by ability is, and has always been, allowed at all schools, and helps teachers give every child an appropriately stretching education.
"Multi-academy trusts have always been able to pool their resources to deliver these benefits on a larger scale and across different sites within the trust, and we want to see more do this.""