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Original poster

Bits of news on the grammar school issue

266 replies

HPFA · 07/04/2017 18:48

Two snippets of news

schoolsweek.co.uk/film-company-targets-grammar-teachers-in-recruitment-video/?utm_content=bufferb7668&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

Unclear exactly why grammar teachers are being targeted to tempt people into teaching. Perhaps to tempt recruits by suggesting they can have a nice career only teaching the easy kids.

And another piece of news:

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/exclusive-church-england-not-interested-opening-new-grammar-schools

This is perhaps hardly surprising. Since faith schools are already so heavily criticised for being socially exclusive it would hardly do the C of E's image much good to open up schools explicitly targeting the already advantaged. Still welcome news to those of us on the pro-comprehensive side.

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 12/04/2017 20:00

There's also been the odd glare from people on courses too.

Because you went to a grammar or because you teach at one?

Some people are weird.

BertrandRussell · 12/04/2017 19:57

So another excluded category is people who went to a comprehensive school which didn't have a 6th form.......

Clavinova · 12/04/2017 19:54

Noble
I've excluded her because she wasn't educated with students her own age at sixth form - nothing to do with Oxford.

'The library was university standard – and it was there I first learned about academic journals – prompted by my amazing Film Study tutor Alan Ellison who part-pioneered our entirely theoretical Film A-Level based on his own experiences of teaching undergraduates.'

DoctorDonnaNoble · 12/04/2017 19:43

Noble - yup, and this was at roehampton in Surrey so several of the placement schools were grammars. There's also been the odd glare from people on courses too. To be honest I save my course glares for people who ask stupid questions right when the course is about to end when the question is irrelevant to everyone else. Grrrrrrr.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 12/04/2017 19:35

I did teacher training in Notts. My school mentor - who was very inspiring as it goes - told me he wouldn't write me a reference if I applied to 'one of those grammar schools over the border.'

That said, when I applied to his actual school (having not applied to the satanic grammars), I didn't even get an interview! Charmed.

noblegiraffe · 12/04/2017 19:28

Got picked on by some PGCE tutors for being a grammar school girl. Really. Ridiculous.

Confused What the...I can't even... ?

noblegiraffe · 12/04/2017 19:23

unusual 16-18 educational experience

Do you mean the college with the 19% pass rate? Probably as far removed from a grammar school as you could get.

But she's excluded from criticising grammars anyway because she went to Oxford.

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 12/04/2017 19:22

Brackets didn't work Grin

ILikeBeansWithKetchup · 12/04/2017 19:22

Of course , if you went to school in Scotland - like Gove and me you get away with spouting all sorts of crap, because everyone south of the border assumes you must be very under privileged! [grin}

Clavinova · 12/04/2017 19:21

Absolutely! Grin

BertrandRussell · 12/04/2017 19:18

"Not sure I want to take any notice of Owen Jones:

'He describes himself as a "fourth-generation socialist"; his grandfather was involved with the Communist Party and his parents met as members of the Trotskyist Militant tendency.'"

Is this another category to add to HPFA's list of people who are not allowed to have opinions about selective education? Grin

Clavinova · 12/04/2017 19:12

Not sure I want to take any notice of Owen Jones:

'He describes himself as a "fourth-generation socialist"; his grandfather was involved with the Communist Party and his parents met as members of the Trotskyist Militant tendency.'

Laura McInerney goes into great detail about her background here:
lauramcinerney.com/2012/11/25/schooling-biography/

She did attend a comprehensive school up until age 16 but then she abandoned her own age group to study A levels with mature students at an adult education college. She's a very clever 'self-starter' with an unusual 16-18 educational experience.

Original poster
HPFA · 12/04/2017 16:32

can't help thinking, though, that once again we're focusing on the very high attainers. But I know that's my hobby horse........

True, but being able to point to initiatives like this really helps the argument. And less cynically if it helps a particular group without harming others then I'm all for it. I'm also pleased because in those naïve days when I thought suggesting other ways of meeting the needs of these pupils would be a constructive way of contributing to the argument I actually thought up a similar idea!

Doctor No-one should be attacked for where they went to school. Adults should be able to make decisions for themselves without being expected to conform with what their parents did.Those tutors had no business making your education an issue.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 12/04/2017 15:59

The Brilliant Club looks.....well, brilliant.

I can't help thinking, though, that once again we're focusing on the very high attainers. But I know that's my hobby horse........

DoctorDonnaNoble · 12/04/2017 15:54

HPFA - yeah, but you just used evidence the DfE don't do that

DoctorDonnaNoble · 12/04/2017 15:54

True noble, i'm over identifying. Got picked on by some PGCE tutors for being a grammar school girl. Really. Ridiculous.

Original poster
HPFA · 12/04/2017 14:58

Look, here's a programme that apparently is really working in terms of getting disadvantaged students into the top universities

www.thebrilliantclub.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/UCAS-Press-Release-29.03.17.pdf

So it seems expanding this programme might be cheaper than setting up new grammars and come without all the disadvantages. So it would make sense for the government to do that right?

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noblegiraffe · 12/04/2017 14:28

I wouldn't say picking at which school someone went to is horrible, rather a poor debate tactic. Playing the man not the ball.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 12/04/2017 14:05

To be fair, there are people on both sides who can be really horrible (talking from experience).
What a lot of people are missing here is that a lot of us in the grammar system as it exists are against these changes too. For a variety of reasons.

noblegiraffe · 12/04/2017 13:55
  1. Not having been to a good comprehensive

I saw Laura McInerey challenged over this on twitter. She said she went to a comp and someone said it was probably a good one so she had to clarify that it was a crap one that had since been shut down and academised.

Even today someone said to her something about middle-class journalists for the Guardian who send their kids private being against grammars, so she had to point out she went state, taught state and didn't have any kids.

Original poster
HPFA · 12/04/2017 13:46

And another little snippet of news: according to pro-grammar supporters there is now another category of people who aren't allowed to be in favour of comprehensives. Owen Jones came under fire for being in favour of comps even though he went to one because he went to Oxford. So the current requirements for people being allowed to support comprehensives are:

  1. Not having parents who sent you to a grammar. This counts even if you went to sec school before comprehensives existed.
  2. Not having failed the 11+ yourself because this means you're jealous.[Notice how these two together exclude anyone over about 50]
  3. Not sending your own kids to a grammar even if you live in a selective county and don't have a choice.
  4. Not having been to an independent school or sending your children to one.
  5. Not been to Oxbridge even if it was from a comp.
  6. Not sending your kids to a "good" comprehensive - the definition of which remains unclear. This effectively excludes most people in rural counties who don't often have much of a choice.
  7. Not sending your kids to a good primary school - yes, really.

This is actually less facetious than it sounds - it is actually quite difficult to support comprehensive schools in any public forum without running into a barrage of this.

OP posts:
Original poster
HPFA · 10/04/2017 10:53

Noble That's really shocking. I find it hard to believe the Union membership would be very happy about it either.

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noblegiraffe · 10/04/2017 10:08

Well this is pretty shady

schoolsweek.co.uk/unions-wont-go-easy-on-grammar-plans-to-win-funding-deal/

Rumours ministers will try to buy support for grammars from the unions with a school funding deal.

DoctorDonnaNoble · 08/04/2017 15:09

Indeed. There are many many more part time teachers at my school (including me) than when I started for example.

noblegiraffe · 08/04/2017 14:53

The DfE line on this is exactly the same as their line on the teacher recruitment and retention crisis. They always parrot that teacher numbers are higher than ever completely ignoring the reality of the situation on the ground that involves more factors than simple teacher numbers.