Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

DD given a Prefect role on a 'probationary' basis - singled out for not complying with school rules, which is news to us

193 replies

hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 09:02

Parents evening a few weeks ago. All favourable - dd works hard in class is meeting expected targets etc. No negative feedback.

Pupils were recently asked to apply if they wanted a prefect role. All those who applied were given prefect roles - with dd and one of her friends held back and spoken to separately. They were both told that they were on probation for half a term and their prefect roles would only be made substantive if they could prove themselves. Apparently they are not complying with school rules.

DD was aghast - apparently she rolls up her skirt too high. She has been told about this by her form teacher and she rolls it back down again when asked and has been complying without being asked recently. She and every other girl who has been selected as Prefects all do this - including the head girl, and dd is adamant she is no worse than anyone else. DD has complained to me previously that her Form teacher does not like her (or her friend) and is harder on her (and her friend) than on her peers and does not appear to be consistent or fair minded. She has given me a couple of recent examples.

It seems that dd now has this sword of Damocles over her and is sure her role wont be made substantive when the half term is up because she thinks her Form teacher will be looking to find fault

What to do?

OP posts:
CauliflowerSqueeze · 25/03/2017 15:10

dont mention the peers' skirts. Ask if she can meet with the tutor to talk about it. Seriously overkill for you to come in, IMO.

hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 14:43

Thanks everyone who has contributed to the thread - I have tried to weigh up all posts including those who have offered a perspective different to mine.

If anyone would be prepared to critique the draft email I would be very grateful

OP posts:
hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 13:41

My draft email to Deputy Head (not sent it yet):

Dear Mrs xxx,

DD has advised me that she is on probation as a Prefect. She is a bit apprehensive about this probation period, and wants to make sure that the role is made substantive and is keen to do whatever is necessary to secure this position at the end of the probationary period. She says she is a bit unsure about what she is doing wrong - there is the skirt issue (although she insists that her skirt length is the same as her peers) but other than that she is unclear. Would it be possible for us to meet up and have a chat about what the issues are so that dd can work on them? We didn't receive any negative feedback during the recent Parents evening so I was unable to enlighten her. DD is very keen to comply and so a walk through of any issues would prove very useful. Perhaps her Vertical tutor could use the weekly vertical tutor session to help guide her and to give regular feedback on how she is doing - I am sure she would be receptive to discussing this with Mr xxx as she has found him to be very supportive...

Many thanks

Kind regards

hmcAsWas

OP posts:
hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 13:38

If that is the case cansu why didn't dd's Form teacher raise this with us at our one to one parents evening chat three weeks ago? Odd, no?

OP posts:
cansu · 25/03/2017 13:20

Soubds to me like your dd is rude to her form teacher. You can be rude in lots of ways. Eg answering back arguing rolling her eyes etc etc. She is now trying to get you to see her as a victim as she has been called on it by having the probation period.

hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 13:15

Its an Independent school

OP posts:
lljkk · 25/03/2017 13:14

I would have thought If it's a state school the teachers & staff have the same workload with just regular teaching & admin as a school does with 400 or 2000 students in it.

hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 12:51

'thought'

OP posts:
hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 12:51

Food for though thatdearoctopus

OP posts:
hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 12:51

"Huge ask to do formal weekly meetings, so much just for your DD. Not reasonable, imho"

Quite a small school though lljkk with good teacher - student ratios....Not a big 900 students on the pupil roll sort of affair

I just think that if it is to be treated formally as probation then it should be handled formally with review meetings - surely that's a constructive learning experience too?

OP posts:
thatdearoctopus · 25/03/2017 12:46

I had a phone call from one of dd's subject tutors in Yr 12. She was basically unhappy with her attitude, as evidenced by eating during class and taking her shoes off under the desk.

I refrained from pointing out that another tutor (the Head of 6th form, as it happened) actively encouraged them to snack during class (going so far as to sending people out to the canteen with a tenner to get muffins on a regular basis) and to curl up and be comfy on sofas during seminars, as I fully recognised that this wouldn't help the situation. Dd had to learn that different teachers/future work bosses would have different expectations. I happened also to think that the teacher was a bit of a bitch who clearly didn't like dd (the first we'd come across in her whole school career).

Did I let that come across in the telephone call? Of course not. I apologised on dd's behalf and told her I would speak to her about it and that it would not happen again.

Dd huffed and puffed a bit, I told her to get over it. She sharpened up her act and by the end of the year she and the teacher were the best of friends and were raving about each other! She also got a bloody good grade when she took her A level in that subject the following year so all's well that ends well.

lljkk · 25/03/2017 12:44

I am thinking of going in and speaking to the Deputy Head (she is the pastoral lead) and - in a non confrontational and neutral way - asking her to walk me through what the issues are

That sounds very sensible.

and to ask that if dd is on probation in this role for half a term that she gets weekly review meetings (with another teacher present - not just the Form teacher) to give immediate feedback on whether she has transgressed that week.

Huge ask to do formal weekly meetings, so much just for your DD. Not reasonable, imho.

Sansculottes · 25/03/2017 12:43

I am always surprised by people who refuse to see teachers don't like all pupils equally. Good teachers don't let it show.

From the fact that there are teachers in schools which are in special measures I think we all know that not every teacher is a good teacher.

There was a recent case of a teacher sanctioned for unprofessional behaviour - will link in a moment.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 25/03/2017 12:38

Honestly OP I think you might be the reason for this.

She was sent outside and went to the library. She was meant to do what she was asked. You're excusing it.

If she was a prefect they would be asked to do things. She would not be reliable if she just went somewhere else because of this.

You have it in your head that the form tutor has it in for her. This means that you will have agreed with her that she is the poor victim while the form tutor is picking on her. Even if you've not used those words, you have definitely given that impression. This creates a rift between home and school: far from actually supporting your daughter you are creating more tension and anxiety. She is now not sure whether or not to comply with the form tutor or to (much more attractive option) do her own thing, knowing mum has her back.

Your best bet would be to have a far more casual and relaxed approach to this, rather than helicoptering and meddling and making out that situations you only know of through the eyes of an irritated teen are unfair. Say instead: "well that sounds like a bummer. Why not ask your tutor if you can discuss it, say you are really keen for the job and can he let you know when your behaviour isn't reaching the correct standard and when it is. I'm confident that you can resolve this yourself. You could say 'hi sir, could I have a little meeting with you at some point today or tomorrow?' - teachers will respect someone trying to sort out the issue themselves. Let me know how you get on"

Give her a pointer and leave the ball in her court. When you say you might have a "non-confrontational" discussion - why? Give her the tools to do it herself.

MrsJayy · 25/03/2017 12:35

Yes I think she or you should speak to the pupil support teacher your Dd is obviously struggiling and wants to fit in so maybe find out from a neutral teacher what is going on. Anxiety in teenagers sometimes make small problems catastrophic for them.

Bensyster · 25/03/2017 12:34

She ought to ask him to guide and support her during the probationary period I think that's an excellent idea.

If you speak to the form teacher - it's likely if she's being in any way unfair to your dd, she will be aware of it. Describing the way your dd is feeling and asking for solutions could work - calling out a relationship problem is often enough to solve it.

hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 12:29

Good point MrsJayy - no Form teacher isn't. DD's vertical tutor is a different teacher who I think, rather likes dd. She ought to ask him to guide and support her during the probationary period......

OP posts:
MrsJayy · 25/03/2017 12:26

Is her form teacher her guidance /pupil support teacher ?

hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 12:24

I will also ask dd to try harder with the Form Teacher - being proactive as some posters have suggested

OP posts:
hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 12:22

Not parent-student doh, I meant teacher-student relationship

OP posts:
hmcAsWas · 25/03/2017 12:19

Thank you to the posters who have accepted at least the possibility that there is could be some issue with the parent - student relationship which is not wholly attributable to my dd's behaviour.

I certainly do not intend to go in all guns blazing. I need to decide whether to see the deputy head or whether to see the teacher directly in the first instance. It might be more 'politic' to see the Form teacher but I have to admit my preference is to speak to the deputy head. My reasoning is that if the teacher is being disproportionate with dd then she is part of the problem and it wouldn't hurt for the deputy head to be alert to the possibility that perhaps she isn't get wholly objective, balanced feedback from the Form teacher and perhaps to take soundings from others.

I won't be going in flinging out accusations but will be explaining that dd perceives a problem with her Form teacher, that its probably all in dd's head (I don't believe it is actually but will say this as the politic thing to say) but does the Deputy Head have any advice on how dd might resolve this and are there any issues that as parents we need to know about. I shall emphasise that dd is keen to prove herself and needs more guidance and direction about where she is going wrong so that she can rectify it

OP posts:
hippyhippyshake · 25/03/2017 12:18

Hmm. A normal response to the teacher's 'glare' would have been a neutral look or a quick acknowledgement if they weren't doing anything wrong. Scuttling into a changing room (and probably giggling!) just doesn't show maturity for a prefect you have to admit!

swingofthings · 25/03/2017 11:59

You might be absolutely right that the Head teacher might be unfair, but the problem is that everything is subjective. He must have HIS valid reasons for not liking your DD and thinking that she is not ready to be a prefix. The fact that your DD, and you by proxi don't agree doesn't mean that he is wrong.

Maybe all the girls roll their skirts, but maybe they stopped doing that many weeks before your DD did. Maybe when they were asked to do so, they stopped and didn't wait to be around the corner to put it back up, and then seen by another teacher who reported her to the Head. Or maybe when they did, they responded very politely whereas your daughter put it down with attitude with her body language.

What your DD and you need to accept is that fairness is often subjective and you can't do much about it in hierarchical structure unless you can prove discrimination, which is very difficult to do anyway.

Your DD needs to learn from it. As it's been said, she will face people who take a dislike in you for what seems to be unfair reasons and you will need to manage it. The director of my department took a dislike of me after a couple of month in my role. He was being unfair in his assessment, but instead of trying to fight a battle, I changed my way to prove him that what he thought I was doing wrong, I was actually very good at. 2 years later and I am being promoted.

GrassWillBeGreener · 25/03/2017 11:50

Hope it all works out. I'd have loved to have been a prefect at school; my mother still believes that I would have been appointed except for one senior teacher vetoing it. There's enough reason that she could be right.

senua · 25/03/2017 11:42

Apparently they are not complying with school rules ... She and every other girl who has been selected as Prefects all [roll their skirts too high] - including the head girl, and dd is adamant she is no worse than anyone else

So it isn't just skirt rolling that is the problem, there are other things - like going to the Library when she was expressly told to go outside.Hmm

I think that you and the school need to handle this carefully. At the moment she is on a "behave or else" threat. The trouble with issuing ultimatums is that you have to follow through: if she doesn't get to be a prefect then she may go off the rails and be even worse next year. It's in everyone's interests (that includes you) that she behaves and is accepted.
She also needs to grow a backbone and realise that she is in charge of her future. Stop trying to blame other people (eg teacher) for her downfall. Tell her to be more proactive with the Form Teacher: speak to her like a human being, tell her what efforts have been made that week and ask for feedback i.e. make sure the teacher 'catches her being good'. Don't wait for contact (which always seems to be a telling off).

Swipe left for the next trending thread