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Original poster

Tories shit all over the comprehensive system with a return to the 1950s and a nationwide 11+

210 replies

noblegiraffe · 21/03/2017 20:33

That nice comp down the road that you had your eye on for your kid currently in primary?

BAM, now it's got an entrance exam and your kid is going to be bussed out to a secondary modern. We're staring down the barrel of a return to the two tier system across England.

Word on the street is that Theresa May, because she is a total fucking thoughtless idiot who doesn't have a clue about education and couldn't be arsed to read the Green Paper consultation responses from people who do, has kept in the imminent White Paper on grammar schools the option for current comprehensives to convert to grammar schools.

Heads will be preparing their applications to convert as we speak, because no school wants to miss the boat and become the secondary modern of the area.

Everyone with kids in primary should be very worried about this. Even if you think your kid should have a good shot at getting into the grammar, the test is unreliable.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-views/government-set-allow-existing-schools-convert-grammar-status-white

OP posts:
Ollycat · 21/03/2017 22:41

If my children hadn't qualified they would have gone to the upper- it's a great v high achieving school and they would have done well there.

Any way this isn't debate it's hysterical shouting so I'll leave you to it Smile

Mumski45 · 21/03/2017 22:39

The comps in my area are in no way seen as less desirable. I don't get this assumption that more grammars in a voluntary selective system is bad for other schools. It doesn't happen like that in my LA.

Ollycat · 21/03/2017 22:38

I do think saying it's a fucking nightmare is a bit over dramatic- there's a test in the sept of year 6 and that's it. A number of parents manage to generate a lot of stress and angst for themselves about it but honestly that is a problem with the parents.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 21/03/2017 22:37

They would only arise in a fully selective system

How do you propose stopping a return to a fully selective system with the conversion option on the table? I'm all ears.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 21/03/2017 22:36

Oh, and why should we listen to people who have kids in grammar schools when the voice of those with kids in secondary moderns is more important as they form the vast majority?

OP posts:
Ollycat · 21/03/2017 22:35

noblegiraffe as I said the system is flawed Hmm

Mumski45 · 21/03/2017 22:35

Why all the scaremongering about secondary moderns. They would only arise in a fully selective system. In my LA the system seems to work well in that the grammars exist as an option for those that feel it is a good fit for their child and the local comps are also good. The existence of more grammars does not mean that other schools will become 'bad' schools if the system is properly funded at every level.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 21/03/2017 22:34

Funny because I was talking recently to someone who lives in a two tier system (child in Y5) and she was saying what a fucking nightmare the whole thing is and if she'd known of the stress and hassle it would cause, she would never have moved there.

OP posts:
Ollycat · 21/03/2017 22:31

The problem with any discussion on Mumsnet re Grammars is that no one ever listens to people who actually have children in grammar schools or live in a wholly selective education system - Bucks have no comprehensives at all.

Personally I feel the comprehensive system is fairer then selecting at 11 but my children are in a truly amazing school (full of local children from the local primary schools).

The system is flawed but this kind of scare mongering is inaccurate and a bit silly!!

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 21/03/2017 22:31

Mumski the minute comps are allowed to convert, they will be fighting to become the local grammar. If they're the grammar they'll find it easier to recruit and retain staff, they'll be more likely to be Ofsted Outstanding and they'll probably have an easier cohort because the kids with major issues don't tend to be entered for/pass entrance exams.
The other schools will be seen as less desirable, more likely to have difficulties recruiting, may go into a downward spiral which ends in the head losing his job and special measures.

In an already competitive environment, hopes that schools won't compete on this are futile.

OP posts:
user1490123259 · 21/03/2017 22:28

PS have you ever heard of a PRU ?

we need 10 times as many PRU places for comprehensives to work, and we need for them to take referrals for 10 times longer.

Mumski45 · 21/03/2017 22:26

Bucks schools

Mumski45 · 21/03/2017 22:26

No one is suggesting that comps should be given up. Where does that information come from.

Iamastonished · 21/03/2017 22:24

Is that you Theresa (user1490123259)?

Ta1kinPeace · 21/03/2017 22:24

user1490123259
because a significant proportion of their classmates are permanently rioting.
and Secondary Moderns will improve that ?

PS have you ever heard of a PRU ?
as you clearly hate school kids

Ollycat · 21/03/2017 22:23

Ta1kinPeace tgey have not offered all of catchment the last two years (previously had just accommodated all of catchment) - why don't you believe me?!? How strange! Still Bucks publishes its secondary school offers. Yes it's near county boundaries.

Tge likes of HBS and QE are the ones bussing people in.

bigmack · 21/03/2017 22:22

Which schools are rioting? Do you work in a school like that?

Ta1kinPeace · 21/03/2017 22:22

Mumski
Is that Bucks schools or Bucks resident pupils ?
Just that the influence of superselectives in small London boroughs distorts results

either way, Comps are fine for the counties that want them
do not force us to give them up

user1490123259 · 21/03/2017 22:20

The comps, which were offering a good education in the 1980s, and maybe the 1990s, when behaviour was better, are failing abysmally now, with poor behaviour the norm, and many good children not getting a chance to learn anything, because a significant proportion of their classmates are permanently rioting.

We don't just need grammar schools back, where behaviour is a lot better, we also need EBD schools back, where the worst behaved can go, and just mess up their own education, not everyone elses aswell.

Mumski45 · 21/03/2017 22:20

Actually the attainment 8 score in Bucks was the 6th highest in the country in 2016. 4 of the other top 6 LA's also have more than 10% selective school places.

AndKnowItsSeven · 21/03/2017 22:19

My area has no nice comps only good faith schools and one grammar and two good lottery ex grammar schools.
More grammar schools will be a positive thing for my LEA.

Ta1kinPeace · 21/03/2017 22:19

noble
LEAs provide buses and sign SLAs with Academies for bus provision .... there are ways

Ta1kinPeace · 21/03/2017 22:18

basically none from out of catchment
Really?
I'll have to re download the full DFE data set which has the out of catchment data as I seem to remember that selective districts had very high levels of border traffic
or maybe your school is not near the county boundary

either way Bucks is not significantly different from the English average so the Sec Mods balance out the grammars

as Noble so rightly and regularly points out

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 21/03/2017 22:16

LEAs don't have any control over academies though do they?

OP posts:
Ollycat · 21/03/2017 22:16

Bucks is not admitted by score - you qualify and then it's catchment. I'm not pro grammar school (yes my children attend one) but many of the things people say about grammars are wildly untrue and misleading and said by people with no experience of them.

Swipe left for the next trending thread