Would you/have you started going to church to get child into a good church school?!

I suppose it depends which tory voters you mix with, we are shaped by our environment afterall. In my marriage I was the sole socialist surrounded by tory voters whose sole motivation in life was to get rich and they did this by expoloiting others and judging people who had less than them. Not very Christian IMO. I am more than willing to change my mind if I meet a tory who is different - it is just yet to happen.

It is a prejudice and we all have them although my posting was fuelled by a bottle of red wine! But it is what I think and we are entitled to opinions. That is the point of having a political view you think the other side is wrong. I just don't see how the two can go togther although Christianity is literally a broad church and I can see how I selctthe parts of Christianity that suit my left wing politics and there may be others who select parts of Christianity to suit their more right wing views.

I agree with Xenia that people on the left do think we have the high ground and it is our most annoying trait. If you also take into consideration the fact that I am also a Christian who considers heself to have a vocation helping others I do place myself quite highly on the moral high ground spectrum and therefore must be bloody annoying! Dp says my touchy feel liberal luvvie do gooderness is at once my most appealing and most annoying feature.

Only if you believe in hell UQD

This is now officially the Thread From Hell, isn't it??

OK sorry!

And I was responding to PeachyClair not arguing with you UQD

So don't give me that

I was responding to the poster who said it would be difficult to be both a Christian and a Tory. So don't give me that.

Preconcieved opinion

Form premature judgment

I think that's about right

I agree, CAM; I was just pointing out the overlap between Conservatism and the church.

I always find the left think they have some sort of moral high ground and don't seem to have the humility to accept that politicians on both sides want to help the country. I can see Blair wants to do good. He may often get it wrong and we'd be better with Cameron but I can still see the good intentions.

Christian values of love, tolerance, personal responsibility are all these in huge measure on the right along with discipline, self sacrifice and putting yourself above others. There's a lot more Christianity in giving people the dignity of work than a load of state hand outs.

prejudice is about discriminating or judging against people because of something

saying I don't understand how you can be something isn't prejudice, its expressinga personal feeling and inviting alternative viewpoints. Prejudice does not seek information or explanations that might confront itself.

um, people at a certain time of their life with time on their hands

In the village where I grew up, the same fifty or so people seemed to run everything - the WI, the church, the Conservative Club, the Gardeners' Society... Make of that what you will.

"I have never and would never vote tory, without wanting to offend anyone and I may now send this thread into a new direction of kicking off status I don't understand how you can be a tory, even the new softer brand, and be a Christian"

at Twinset&Pearls level of pure prejudice

That's my father binned then

Greensleeves I admit the choice is not total and while dd may not ahve been born a RC (I am not up to a theological debate when I have tv crews arriving in 15 minutes and I have wet hair and an untidy house!) I do think children are born with a natural spirtiuality.

Dd at5 has the choice whether she goes to church or not, she chooses to do so, I am not naive to think this is beacuse of her great spirtual belief but becuase she sees her friends and we also gave her a choice of where she want to school.

Whenever she wants to stop going to church she can do and she will ahve a completlely free choice when it comes to secondary school. She is also raised in a house where people respectfully tell me that faith is nonsense and God does not exist. So I don't think it is indoctrination.

There is a bit more to it than that Xenia, or there should be although the giving out of college or specialsism status is about competing for pots of money and is sometimes awarded not entirely on merit.

For example the school I teach at is a business college and we do have superb facilities and oppurtunities for our students which will impress parents but are alos genuine oppurtunties. We run genuine businesses that our students can work in and have assoiations with high street retailers. We employ and utilise people from the business world rather from just teaching to inspire and work with our students. We also attact staff into our school who are interested in business and more vocational qualifications and also educate children from other schools are intersted in business and enterprise. Students who are interested in running their own business or follwoing a vocational path would be better of choosing our school than the others in the town, as is evidenced by the number of students we educate from other schools.

Sadly too many schools go for special status solely for the sign or extra money without actually doing anything to earn that status.

Actually, although state the anguage school is one lots of people fight to get into- the locl private schools are well known (Kings, Millfield, taunton) but as far as state goes its good- not everyone can do private after all.

I knoew ther performing arts one has good facilities- not sure about the science one. There's a strong performance traditin where theya re so its a commiunity school at maximum level really.

My cousin went to one of the 'proper' music schools and is about to read music and chem at Cambridge. So I can see the benefit, but not all kids or schools can do this- mind you round here all kids get free music at primary (mine do violin) which is a hugely good thing imo.

I can undertsand having schools for musicl geniuses like say Chesthams where the children will have 3 instruments and grade 8 in them all by the time they're 12 or whatever and that's fine - a rare specialist education but to rename some low grade comp a specialist music college or a language or a sports one - we have all those not that far from us, it just seems silly. I bet the French and German teaching in the language one won't even touch the levels of language teaching in any of the local private schools and it won't be say bilingual total immersion like you might get on Anglesey. It will just be a language lab which is new and impresses the more stupid parents.

I think its something to do with the area- (I mean, I just took an NVQ assessors in carnival skills at the local college LOL) and the value they put on diversity.

We have just the one comp here, from what I see its not good, despite taking from a range of over achieving schools (which is another thread entirly!!). Apart from the suicide bid there of a kid with AS (which after all ds1 has) the kids behave awfully. There's a school I help at in thre Valleys- much poorer intake- kids so much better behaved / respectfyul. Don't figure. (And neither school is religious).

That sounds a lot better Peachyclair. Where I live we will be expected to send our children to the catchment area school, which is a huge concrete Technology College. It doesn't bother me as much as it might some people - I'm not really interested in being pushy academically and we can supplement the boys' other interests outside school - but politically I think it's a fucking disgrace.

Well in my (home)
area parents parents get a choice of science, performing arts, language and one other (should be named shite but I doubt thats the specialism it boasts about). Don't think it has much effect, bar attracting financial investments (which it does but mainly the performing arts school as they have good dance etc facilities).

Parents can instill excellent boundaries and moral education at home without once attending Church or joining an established religion. Firstly many, many people who follow Jesus don't like the Church or just simply can't go- some people have to nurse / look after sn kids / just work after all.

As an example, I just finished this years Ethics undergrad modules. Religion wasn't mentioned once, but moral responsibility etc was. And just a glance at the Humanist webiste will show that if one does reject religion, it doesn't mean rejecting all social responsibility- which ties abck to the parenting thing. Boundaries, morals etc- extremely important. Religion- a personal choice.

FWIW I did sit down with the boys and pray for that poor family who lost their 5 week old baby in a fire in bradford alst night, for those of us who believe its important; for those who don't its still achance to meditate on the extreme luck we have as a famuily and how grateful we have are to be together.

I agree wholeheartedly Xenia about the lunacy of introducing specialisms for all the state schools - it was introduced as a glamorous vote-winner, but wasn't properly organised/thought out (not to mention being a crap idea in the first place) - and the catchment area system is still in place! So everyone in my area who goes to state primary school, wants a state school education and isn't a religious nut goes to a Technology College!. It pisses me off royally.

Some areas, usually more remote ones, only have one school so none of this applies and some have very very few badly off people and others very few with much money so it doesn't work that well either. In the US deep South they tried to get integration by busing whites and blacks to each other's areas. You could bus the poor to the areas of the rich and vice versa I suppose.

should have said 2 areas of brighton only have one school in the catchment are. these are the 2 poorest areas of brighton.

true but I am thinking of 2 areas. both "poor" one of which now is the catchment area for the most unpopular school . only one school in the catchment area so no lottery, no choice. I just thank the man upstairs that my dc's are in secondry as DS would not have gone to that school.