Anyone used a solicitor for a school appeal?

Thank you to everyone who have responded - all advice is gratefully received. Just wondered if I could suggest as part of my argument that accepting dd would not be detrimental to current students by being an addition to the year group if the school site is shared by sixth form and they are not full to capacity (ie 300 places but only 260 accepted in the same year? Though this might satisfy square footage/safety in corridors on stairs etc..also are maps a good idea to demonstrate catchment area of current placement over catchment area of preferred placement pinpointing peers and their proximity to dd?

I doubt anyone would disagree with the value of strong peer relationships in education, the fact that the head in question has written about it is irrelevant to your case.

I agree. DDs was a complicated severe bullying case with a shedload of evidence from professionals and it was still "no" at the first hurdle. The school we wanted for DD, her brother was already in, and it was/is in a very 'naice' area. Which I'm presuming Bromley is too.

Sorry if this sounds rude it doesn't mean too but I think you may need more help, evidence with regards to your daughters needs than just the friendship groups. Yes they help but then kids are swapped and changed around all the time. DD is dyslexic, she struggled with friendships massively once she'd changed schools (she'd built up a wall after what she's been through and I dont blame her - I think she'd just lost sight of what is a friend and one who isn't).

That being said. Is the school you want her in one form entry or more? Because she won't be guaranteed she'll be in with the same friends she mentioned. The school we moved DD too had her best friend in her class who she'd known from nursery, she has gone up to the same senior school with all her class this year as the primary was a feeder school and not one person from her original friendship group is in her tutor group or any of her classes. She has surprisingly (to me) made new friends pretty easily though who seem very supportive of their group.

Yes, exactly. There are several of us here who have been involved for a long time and we are trying to explain how it works and what the panel will be looking for. On the whole, it helps if parents (and schools for that matter) have relevant documentary evidence to back up what they're saying. If there isn't much or any documentation, then parents need to be prepared for questions about that, to explain (for example) how long the waiting list for CAMHS can be.

Jax57 - The panel doesn't mind about the system. You don't have to wait 3 terms before taking medical evidence to the panel. That is, presumably, about the level of evidence required to get medical priority on the waiting list, which is not necessarily relevant for an appeal. You just have to produce enough evidence to convince them that it is in your daughter's best interests to go to this school and that this outweighs any problems the school will face due to having to admit another child.

Hi everyone - dd is on waiting list due to criteria of proximity to preferred school. 6 ifvher Primary class friends have places including her 2 bfs one who was on the list at the same time as dd the other was allocated place on offers day. There were 20 places between them on list and bf was allocated place first week of September leaving her allocated school after less than 2 weeks. Medical evidence will take months to obtain- waiting list for CAMHS is currently 9 mths here in Croydon. I work in the classroom of school which operates managed moves between the allocated school dd is currently at. I work in SEN so on a daily basis refer students to SENCO for Ed Psych but again this would take months. The system is now that evidence needs to be gathered over a time period (normally 3 terms) to demonstrate needs and confirm school intervention before any really support given. My daughter is vulnerable through this transition and if left unsupported could develop from anxiety and depression into significant mental health issues and EBSR. Why should she have to deteriorate that much to provide ‘medical evidence’ for panel?

I hear what you say, and I agree that the article is one piece of evidence that this school is probably more aware than others of the importance of peer relationships, but I think that still leaves the problem of demonstrating why any particular child needs this particular school (given that the LEA/school's position will almost certainly be that any school could provide pastoral support etc). In the many panels I've chaired, we have tended to accept what parents tell us - we don't expect them to have documentary evidence for everything and we reach a view on whether what they're saying is plausible and credible - but we do still have to weigh that against the arguments and evidence offered by the other side. I think Bombardier is right to warn that other panels may have different expectations about the amount of documentary evidence to be given in support.

I am going to disagree with Bombardier25966 about the article. I have chaired panels for many years and the article will indicate that the school pays particular attention to this aspect for pupils in the school. As such they will have to explain to the panel whether they considered the situation of this appellant in relation to peer pressures before they took the decision to not admit and how this outweighs the appellant's situation. The school can admit over PAN of its own accord if it wishes to and cannot rely solely on the year group being at PAN to say they will not admit. Clearly if the school has a PAN of 240 and they only have 240 in the year group, this becomes an important issue. If however the year group already has 260, then it is easy to see that the needs of the school will outweigh the needs of the appellant.
In my opinion, there will be no medical evidence that you want Bombardier25966 because we are only half a term into her being in the school and the chances of seeing an ed psych in the first half term are nil. Those are realisms not facts.
The panel are going to have to weigh up the totality of the school's case against the appellants case and come to a decision. That decision may well be not to admit but it should not, in my opinion, be based on Bombardier25966's narrow set of lack of evidence.

Just read back and confirmed that the oversubscription criteria are based on distance. So too, then, is the waiting list.

Oh dear. Am I myopic as well as pedantic? Did I miss that initial allocations are random?

I tend to agree with Bombardier about the level of evidence required. It's great that the HT of the preferred school has spoken publicly about the importance of peer relationships, but the school or LEA will be arguing that all schools pay a lot of attention to peer relationships. The panel may also be sceptical if you say your daughter has needs and difficulties beyond the usual level that all schools can cater for yet haven't (if this is the case) sought external help.

an article printed by Guardian featuring Head of preferred school declaring how peer relationships encourage learning and progress and need to be monitored by teachers to safeguard mental health of girls in particular during transition and between 10-14.

I doubt anyone would disagree with the value of strong peer relationships in education, the fact that the head in question has written about it is irrelevant to your case.

As a panel member I would be looking for medical evidence of your daughter's difficulties, and not just a GP letter saying "Patient says ...". If your daughter has not seen an educational psychologist I'd be asking why, because this would be appropriate for a child experiencing emotional distress, and because I'd want to know that you have exhausted all other avenues. I'd also expect you to demonstrate why this is the only school that can meet your daughter's needs, you need to be specific in what the school offers your daughter, not to students in general.

Unless you can identify an administrative anomaly, or other reasons why your daughter must attend the school, I would not allow the appeal. That's not to say you should not try though, you might get a panel who are more influenced by emotions than fact.

Yes we did. But ours was very complicated and they were very helpful. I ended up being in hospital very poorly the week the appeal was heard so it was good that a solicitor was able to represent me in the end as I was too poorly to attend (obviously). Having a solicitor does not give you a cast iron guarantee that you will win your appeal. Our solicitor had several appeals the week they had ours and still lost some.

It isn't necessarily needed though, as PPs have said, it's geared up to help parents anyway.

My turn to be pedantic!

if places in the normal admissions round are allocated by random selection the waiting list is also random and they must hold a fresh draw whenever a place becomes available. However, if places are allocated by some other method (e.g. distance which appears to be the case here) the waiting list must be ordered in the same way.

Waiting list offers are not random or "first come, first served". Waiting lists are held in the same order as the oversubscription criteria. As I read it, the friend who was offered a place lives 30m closer to the school, and so would have been higher on the waiting list.

Not an expert but do you know if they are still randomly allocating people off the waiting list or is it now done by distance or some other criteria?

Was the friend on the waiting list at the same time as you? Just wondering why they took her but not your dd - do you know if they have admitted any dc after the friend and if so how far away they live? Or how come there are so many people above your dd on the waiting list - do they come from a very narrow band living close to you and friend or have they joined the list later and if it's random then how come they jumped up but you didn't - can you get distance and criteria used for each of the late admitted children to see if there is any pattern to Imindicate it's not random allocation if that's what it's meant to be but there's a deliberate pattern that's working against you? Or indeed anything that could be used as a technicality on the waiting list management?

To be pedantic, they wouldn't admit 1500 in a year, as the PAN is 240 (which does include all the pupils admitted in whatever category). You're looking for any year group (outside the sixth form) in which there are more than 240, either in the current academic year or in the last few years (how many years you look at is really up to you, and depending on what data the school can provide). If there have been year groups with 240+ you can then ask what accidents there have been, for example, attributable to overcrowding. Usually, the school can't provide any concrete examples, which lends weight to your argument that they could admit another pupil without detriment.

Thanks Admission - the preferred school has been an Academy since 2011/2012. Should I look back at all the admission figures until they converted or just a random sample of years where they have exceeded their PAN - 240 per year (plus 300 for 6th form) so any year they have admitted over 1500 in total? I assume this includes SEN/LAC, Siblings and children of staff in those numbers too...

As ever, I agree with Admission.

Assemble as much documentary evidence as you can about your daughter's difficulties and your contacts with the school. Also, pinpoint any other features of the preferred school that make it a better fit for your daughter - subjects on the curriculum, extra-curricular provision, whatever it might be.

Oh, that is interesting that the head of preferred school has published in the guardian about peer relationships. They are going to have an interesting time explaining how they came to decision to not admit with that article available to the panel. But it does really depend how many pupils they already have in the year group as to how much this could influence the outcome of the appeal.
Everything that you can get together for the appeal is good news, but stuff with school does need to be writing. Regrettably panels have found by bad experiences that some parents will say anything to get their child in a school, so written evidence is needed to back up anything you say.

Thanks Admission for your response. Her two best friends plus at least 4 other girls from her friendship group are at our preferred school. She is only child to attend the other school which is rated outstanding compared to the preferred school which is rated good. Have worked with Head of Pastoral regarding dd’s anxiety, illness on a Sunday night, no longer independent travelling to school etc. My main concern is she has a poor working memory and poor single word vocabulary (tested for dyslexia) but not dyslexic - so no chance of EHCP but obviously not a conducive working environment. Has no friends/peer group who live locally to travel to or from school with and all her friends hang out together in Bromley - current school head into Croydon where she is not allowed. Her lack of confidence, self esteem and lack of motivation do not allow her to progress or thrive in an environment of low level disruption and not knowing who she can rely on for support. I work in a school that exchanges students on managed moves from this school so understand what she is experiencing on a daily basis. School have been great but dd is a changed child. Hopefully will have letters of support from Primary Head, SENCO and music teacher to back up reasons for preferred choice. In addition to an article printed by Guardian featuring Head of preferred school declaring how peer relationships encourage learning and progress and need to be monitored by teachers to safeguard mental health of girls in particular during transition and between 10-14.

The first thing to say is that the waiting list is not necessarily disbanded at the end of December. By law the admission authority has to hold a waiting list till the end of december. After that the school will make their own decision about exactly how they operate a system which allows them to fill any places that come vacant. You need to ask the school what they do.
You have nothing to loose by appealing for a place. However the reality is that you need to have a strong case to put before the panel to have a reasonable chance of success.
What written evidence do you have of daughter feigning illness and the conversations that you have had with school? Your case will be much stronger if you can show that you have been in written correspondence over the issues. However when you appeal you are appealing for a school and not appealing against a school. So you need to establish what are the issues that the proposed new school can resolve that the current school cannot, so for a start a secure friendship base , with friend who lives 30 yards from you but what else can you form the appeal on.
The other point to make is that you only have one appeal per academic year, so you do need to be sure that you have the best possible case before you submit.

Hi I would really welcome some advice...dd was not allocated first preference back in March 2017 but was placed on waiting list for school. She is currently in the high teens on the list but it will be disbanded at the end of December. We didn’t appeal straight away as we hoped she would get in from list. The over subscription criteria is in relation to proximity to school. The current school she is at is rated outstanding but Dd is suffering emotional and social issues being there. She has changed from an enthusiastic, independent and capable student to one who needs to be taken to school by me every day because she doesn’t want to be there. She is stressed from the idea of being harassed by rival schools as she journeys to and from school. She socially has no peers to travel with or have gone from her own primary school to this secondary school and has tried to join after school clubs but with no success. I have spoken directly to the school about her feigning illness at the weekends and I see her each day reluctant to go in. She desperately wants her first choice school and I am really afraid she may start to develop into an Emotional School Refuser: the transition is proving very difficult. Technically she has not been refused a place but I don’t hold out any hope before the waiting list is abandoned. I have asked this week for an independent appeal. Am I doing the right thing? The first preference school is in Bromley- we live 500 yards away in Croydon. Her friend who lives approximately 30 yards distance between us as the crow flies to the school was offered a place in September. Any advice would be sincerely gratefully received.

P.S. OP - I am also glad you have decided to do it yourself. Good luck and feel free to ask if you need any help/advice.

Zoflorabore - Thanks for the reference! Glad I was able to help.

Are there specific sites where I can find this information and also would the school have to provide me with the information if I asked for it

The admission authority (the LA if it is a community school or VC school, the school itself if it is an academy, free school or VA school) must answer any reasonable question you ask to help prepare for your appeal.