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Original poster

TV advert to explain new 9-1 GCSE doesn't mention new pass grade.

57 replies

noblegiraffe · 06/03/2017 22:06

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/ofqual-ramps-publicity-amid-confusion-over-numerical-gcse-grades

Ofqual has been forced to launch TV and Facebook ads explaining the new GCSE grades after a survey showed that most people didn't know know anything about them, including 84% of HR professionals.

However, in a bizarre decision, the advert mentions that the proportion of kids getting a 4 and above will be the same as that who previously got a C or above but doesn't explain that the 5 will be the new good pass grade.

Why are they covering this up? Are they going to backtrack? Trying to avert panic?

Why are teachers around the country telling kids that 5 is the new pass and in future this is what employers will be looking for, when the government are not using this presumably expensive one-off opportunity to tell employers this?

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 19:14

It's entirely possible, tiggy that the school got it wrong. A poll was run on twitter recently asking this exact question and a worrying amount of respondents were wrong.

November poll: 54% incorrect
justmaths.co.uk/2016/11/05/oi-listen-up-accountability-measures/

January poll: 38% incorrect
justmaths.co.uk/2017/01/18/three-rings/

OP posts:
tiggytape · 07/03/2017 19:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 18:43

Grade 4's will count as passes in this year's league tables

They won't!

OP posts:
tiggytape · 07/03/2017 18:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 18:08

And the totally, utterly frustrating thing about all this is that the only reason that these changes were rushed through so quickly, creating such a mess, was because there was a General Election in 2015. Gove wanted everything to be rushed through because if Labour won, he wanted things to be so far gone that they couldn't roll back the changes. Nothing to do with the good of the kids.

Fucking politicians.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 17:58

Phil League tables will use the 5 from this year, for the English and Maths headline figure, and for the Ebacc.

whoknows Current Y9 (not Y10) are projected to be the first year to need a 5 not to have to resit. The government currently says:

"The government intends to align the 16 to 19 maths and English funding condition with the new GCSE good pass in maths and English. A phased approach will be taken. For students studying in academic years 2017 to 2018 and 2018 to 2019 the funding condition will be based on the new GCSE grade 4. Beyond this, we intend to revise the funding condition to reflect the new GCSE good pass (grade 5). The specific date from which this will take effect will be confirmed closer to the time."

www.gov.uk/guidance/16-to-19-funding-maths-and-english-condition-of-funding#qualifications-equivalent

OP posts:
Allthebestnamesareused · 07/03/2017 17:44

Whoknows - it is the current year 10s that will be the first cohort to have to get level 5s. By the time your year 8 does GCSEs Maths and English will be in their 4th year and the other subjects in their 3 rd year.

PhilODox · 07/03/2017 17:42

I thought the performance tables were going to use 4 and above for the first two years? Then the 5kicks in?

WhoKn0wsWhereTheTimeG0es · 07/03/2017 17:39

So the current year 8, who sat the old KS2 SATS and missed the start of the new NC in primary school will be the first year who will have to get 5s.

I have a yr 8 DC and one in yr 6 who has covered WAY more at primary school than her older sibling so a 5 for the year 8 one is going to be a massively harder task than it will be for the younger one, the whole thing does seem very badly thought out.

Devilishpyjamas · 07/03/2017 17:39

My poor son is in year 10. I was a bit shocked by some of the things I heard at parents evening from teachers but nobel giraffes message above explains that.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 17:29

When O-levels switched to GCSEs there was about a 10 year lead in period. Some kids sat both O-levels and GCSEs so achievement could be compared. Syllabuses were thought through and teachers had time to get to grips with them.

This. This is shit. And it didn't have to be. Syllabuses thrown together on the back of a fag packet based on the whim of an ignorant minister. Textbooks being rushed to print before everything was signed off now unusable because of major changes. Teachers having to teach new stuff without time for training or preparation. A confusing grade system that has had amendments made to how the grades will be allocated even as recently as a few months back. Horrendous mocks that have left kids shell shocked and their confidence in tatters. Schools that have no idea how their pupils will perform. Kids that don't know how they'll perform so they can't plan for their next steps. Sixth forms that don't know how to set entry criteria. Misunderstandings about what will even constitute a pass grade.

Try putting that on an advert, eh, Ofqual?

OP posts:
DoctorDonnaNoble · 07/03/2017 12:57

It's a bloody mess. The whole thing. It's the worst change I've come across in my time of teaching. Maybe if they'd taken the time over it properly then people would know what is going on. If we're moving towards students remaining in education until 18 (which we are) then it is surely essential to do a full review on education at this level. Are GCSEs necessary when everyone remains in school? I believe such a change was recommended; but ignored.

tiggytape · 07/03/2017 12:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ThornyBird · 07/03/2017 12:09

DC1 is in yr11 so new English/maths cohort. We went to a college open day at the weekend and were looking at the new A levels.

Interestingly, the tutors were all talking about required grades in term of C's and B'c. When asked about numerical grades, they weren't sure what the cut off for A level is - and this was looking at maths, English lit, History and the sciences!

DC2 is yr9 and will be the 2nd year of all new GCSEs. They are the first year of 3 year GCSEs at their school. Parent evening last week and the teachers are admitting they are not sure how things will work out yet as it has been pushed through so fast.

Makes me relieved I got out years ago (although I do some teaching for further ed vocational courses). Thank you to those of you trying to make sense of it all for my babies! StarFlowersGin

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 12:01

The same proportion of students who got a C or above will get a 4 or above for the first year. However the good pass grade will be a 5, so significantly more pupils will fail.

OP posts:
portico · 07/03/2017 11:58

Will the first cohort to sit Eng/Maths 2017, and the first cohort to sit the rest in 2018 get an easier ride in terms of grades. I am hoping the boards go easy in the first year

Clavinova · 07/03/2017 11:54

I'm going to have to try again to explain inverse functions and iterations - with 15 year olds
What set are you teaching? I was under the impression from a previous thread that maths teachers didn't attempt to teach all the A* material from the syllabus to every set even though they were sitting the higher paper. There has to be harder material at the top end to separate the 8s and 9s. For what it's worth DS1, 14/Year 10 is currently going over inverse functions for the so called 'easier' IGCSE maths exam this summer. His class are finding the work challenging.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 10:04

The new head of the ASCL, Geoff Barton has also criticised the government for the lack of clarity on this issue. He says that applications for his school's sixth form are down as students don't think they will get the required grades. And what's really frustrating is that because teachers have no idea about grade boundaries for the new maths and English GCSEs, some students will be told that they will not get the grades, and will be put off from applying for sixth form, when actually they will get the grades.

www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/incoming-ascl-general-secretary-warns-confusion-over-new-gcse-grading

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LooseAtTheSeams · 07/03/2017 09:29

I wonder if the ad is a sign they're going to back down? The resit policy is a complete mess. I'm not surprised parents and employers are confused!
The 4 really should be the pass level full stop. The content is harder so it's a fair level. Also the 9 isn't a level you can really define - it's set after the results are in and a small percentage (really small for mainstream subjects) is selected from the level 8s. So really the scale is 1-8 with a kind of bonus grade. Of course a level and degree courses will set their own requirements but they do anyway.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 07/03/2017 07:50

It only seems fair that for those students a grade 4 is a good pass and it allows them to move on in their education

Here's the problem. A 4 isn't a good pass for these students. A 5 is a good pass and they will have been deemed to not have passed in the school accountability measures.

The government has said that these students only need to get a 4 to not be required to resit in sixth form. I've seen from threads on here that some colleges are anticipating that this will not be good enough for these kids further down the line and are requiring resits for 4s. I've also seen that some sixth forms are requiring 5s to do course that would have previously accepted a C.

It's a mess with poorly communicated expectations.

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troutsprout · 07/03/2017 07:32

I read that mummytime
And how many more pupils will need to resit them next year with these harder GCSEs !

OddBoots · 07/03/2017 07:26

I'm not too sure what the answer is really, the new GCSEs have been pushed through too quickly for it to be fair to the first years of students taking them.

The curriculum has changed in the other key stages too (at least down to KS2, I don't know much about KS1 at the moment) so younger children will be studying harder stuff for years before taking these GCSEs. The children in KS4 now have just been thrown into it, they don't have this background, they (and their teachers) have been expected to cram all all the new stuff into a short space of time.

It only seems fair that for those students a grade 4 is a good pass and it allows them to move on in their education, it is not their fault that the rug has been pulled out under them so fast and so hard. It will still be unfair for them, this grade 4 will not hold its value in future years when the children behind them go through, I'm not sure what can be done to sort that.

It's going to be tough in a different way for the current Y9 and possibly Y8 as (at least when looking at retake requirements for English and Maths) that is when the grade 5 becomes the good pass, they will have had more time to learn the new stuff not not as much as those coming after them so it is still a steep learning curve.

I think over these next 5 years or so there will be an even greater divide between the children whose families can afford tutoring and extra support and the families who can't.

mummytime · 07/03/2017 07:03

We went to the National Apprenticeship show yesterday, and actually quite a few businesses are accepting the 4 grade as a benchmark for entry. Not demanding 5s, which surprised one of my DC.

There was also a news story yesterday which points out that relatively few of those children who fail to get a pass in English and Maths first time, are actually obtaining these grades on resits. And the huge strain colleges and schools are under with all these resits. They don't have enough teachers for English and Maths, and enormous numbers are sitting these exams, so they are having to provide or hirer huge venues (and large extra costs of First aiders etc) for all those sitting the exams.

timeforabrewnow · 07/03/2017 06:55

I failed my maths o level abysmally - but managed to get a Grade 1 CSE which served as an O level pass at that time.

My year 11 DS has battled with Maths for some of his time at secondary school and has just sat his 3 Maths GCSE mock papers. I think the majority of his class has done very poorly indeed. This is at a good school, with an excellent teacher. Sad

MutePoint · 07/03/2017 06:54

DD's school are saying that 4 is equivalent to a C Hmm