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Appeal Secondary School

67 replies

techcorp · 01/03/2017 16:44

Hi All

Just want some advice on how to go about appealing against a decision for Secondary school. My daughter has been offered her 2nd choice. We really wanted the 1st choice. Here is a little about the school, circumstances and what I've found out so far. I have a concern how the school allocated places so want people's opinion. I can discuss other ways after discussing how It was allocated

Our first school is a relatively small school therefore limited numbers so little room from flexibility. It is a faith based school so had to complete a supplementary form which I did.

1-3 criteria's were the the common ones eg siblings, special needs and social circumstances which we didn't fit into.

4 (edited) - girls living in the city of who themselves or their parents from one of the areas named below (places to be allocated proportionally)

Number 4 as per above went down to each area. Don't want to to go into specifics what I mean by area. We had to get our supplementary form signed by our area faith leader. There are 14 areas with each area having a specific number of places. Our area had 14 spaces.

In the notes section it said - Random selection will apply as stated above to the % of places allocated for each area. Where there are more applicants for the available places within categories 5, 6 and 7 (this was other faiths and other girls), then the distance between the Ordnance Survey address points for the school
and the home.

I enquired with the school why my Daughter was declined a space. I was advised we were the furthest from the school.

My initial query is distance should not have been used. As I completed the supplementary form a random draw should have taken place. I believe instead of a random draw for the 14 applicants they used distances as a deciding factor. They should not used this method. I was given this information over the phone. I intend to send them an email to get this is writing. Can simply say please confirm what you said. Do not want to mention method as of now as they might change their story.

Please advise from the reading the above what people think and whether anyone thinks incorrect method of allocation has been used. If it has obviously will mention this on my appeal. Also what does this mean in regards to my daughters application. Does this increase her chances? Do I have grounds of appeal. Please advise. Am I correct in my understanding or have I understood it incorrectly

OP posts:
tiggytape · 09/03/2017 13:26

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prh47bridge · 09/03/2017 13:19

I wouldn't regard 5 pages as particularly long. I've seen much longer appeal cases than that. However, remember that you will have the chance to elaborate on your case in the hearing. You won't want to simply read out your written case. The appeal panel will have read it and will know what it says. Take a look at what you have written with that in mind and strip out anything you can cover in the hearing. But I wouldn't worry too much if it is still 5 pages long.

PatriciaHolm · 09/03/2017 13:15

If you have written 5 pages, I would suggest that yes it's too long. (I sit on appeals panels). It's highly unlikely you really have enough relevant content to fill five pages.

You need to make the point re. the confusion on how the places were allocated, and that you were told distance was used. It may be that the first person you spoke to was incorrect, and distance was not used for you and you did indeed lose out on the random allocation, but you do need to raise the issue.

The rest of your appeal needs to focus on why the prejudice to the school of admitting is lower than the prejudice to your daughter of not attending. Transport issues aren't relevant given the school you have been given is only 2 miles away - secondary school pupils would be expected to deal with that, unless there is documented medical reasoning for why not.

You need to point out the reasons the school will meet her needs - are there subjects it offers you can't get elsewhere, clubs that will stretch her established interests? You need ideally to show that the school can cope with another child in yr7 - find out if they have gone over PAN before, so have set a precedent that they can cope.

techcorp · 09/03/2017 12:41

Just an update. I have contacted the school and they have advised a random draw took place. It is still confusing so will take this to appeal as it is still unclear what happened.

Just a question how long people's appeal letters are and how they have written the letters. I have written my letter as has to be in Friday. I have given detailed reasons why I feel my Daughter should be awarded a place. I have put down various other reasons. After finishing letter I now feel the letter may be too long. It is 5 pages long. Unsure if too long or not. I have written full sentences and not bullet pointed it. As I have a good relationship with my daughter's primary school head teacher I gave him to review. He manages primary school appeals. He thinks it is too long and think I should bullet point my arguments and reasons and cut it down. Only put all the info as the more info I provide the better my chances.

What do people think? anyone done appeals previously and written a letters 5 pages long?

OP posts:
AndNowItsSeven · 05/03/2017 00:18

Tell the school now, it won't weaken your appeal position.

prh47bridge · 05/03/2017 00:06

Agree with PanelChair. You have a clear error which has disadvantaged you. You cannot prove that it has definitely cost your daughter a place but it clearly removed any chance she had of getting a place. You should certainly look to bolster your case by showing that your daughter will be disadvantaged if she doesn't go to this school. But you should avoid clouding the issue with things that won't help your case. Arguments about transport do not carry any weight unless your child has mobility issues, anxiety issues or similar with supporting documentation from a medical professional saying that she needs a school near home. In the absence of any such issues an appeal panel would be of the view that an 11 year old could make a bus journey on her own. Indeed, they would assume that an 11 year old could walk 2 miles on her own or ride a bicycle. It is very unlikely they will be persuaded by you saying she is not independent enough to travel on her own and may well, as PanelChair says, think you sound ridiculous in making such an argument. The only thing that would persuade them is medical evidence.

As PanelChair says, registered childminders are registered with Ofsted or a childminder agency. They are also subject to DBS checks. If the journey is only 2 miles by the shortest walking route there is no requirement for the LA to provide transport. However, if they do the driver should have undergone DBS checks.

PanelChair · 04/03/2017 22:50

Who you ask to take your child to and from school (if you do) is up to you but registered childminders are just that, registered, and, in instances where the local authority arranges transport in buses or taxis, then they have to abide by the local authority's safeguarding policies.

There seems to have been an error here, and that will be the main plank of your appeal, but (again, to be frank) unless your child has recognised and documented anxiety issues (for the sake of argument) or you live up a track miles from the bus stop, you will sound ridiculous if you say she can't go on a bus. Eleven year olds are assumed (except when there are major health issues) to be capable of travelling to school by bus and the panel will no doubt think you have plenty of time between now and September to practice the journey with your child. She may well be much more independent, six months from now.

techcorp · 04/03/2017 22:07

There is no way my daughter would be able to travel on own as not independent enough. Difficult to prove though. Never been on a bus. The school is approx 2 miles away. Never been on a bus.

What about the second question?

OP posts:
LIZS · 04/03/2017 20:04

Generally speaking a secondary age child would be expected to travel independently. Logistics tend not to be strong grounds unless there are medical issues. You need to appeal for this school, not against others.

techcorp · 04/03/2017 19:52

I am looking at other various options for appeal. I have some questions in regards to transport arrangements and how children are expected to travel to school. My partner is a carer for my son therefore looking at options of how I can maybe prove why I need a school more closer to my house and why I personally need to drop off my daughter to school. Son goes to nursery and Daughter's appeal.

Are children aged 11 expected to travel to school on their own? Obviously some children can manage on their own and some cant.

People who provide drop/pickup service, Do they need to be registered for anything? eg Ofsted, Taxi licence etc

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techcorp · 02/03/2017 23:06

Thanks tiggytape and prh47bridge. That's good piece of info so thanks. I will email them back with my findings and see what they say. Guess you both are right its better to raise now rather than later.

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prh47bridge · 02/03/2017 21:34

I agree with Tiggytape. You will not reduce your chances on appeal by telling them now. You may improve them a little as the panel will see that you have been open with the school and given them a chance to rectify their error. That won't win your appeal on its own but it may mean the panel is more inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt.

The panel must take this information into account for all appeals even if you are the only person who raises it.

You have to submit your case before the hearing. The school will see your case before the hearing and you will see their case. That is the way appeals work. If you try to spring something on the school without warning it could result in the appeal being adjourned to give the school time to consider the new evidence and prepare a response.

tiggytape · 02/03/2017 17:12

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

techcorp · 02/03/2017 16:44

Thanks once again. Just do not want to lessen my chances in anyway on my appeal by telling them now.

It is highly unlikely they will offer places to all who applied under category 4 as 25 from my place of worship alone. Going by last years figures I believe 140 + will have applied and most will be category 4 or below. It is small school so will no way they will be able to accommodate that many.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 02/03/2017 16:12

I would tell them now. They may decide to offer you a place without going to appeal. There is nothing they can do about it if they have made a mistake. They cannot withdraw the offers they have made so the only way they can resolve it before appeal would be to admit your daughter (and, ideally, everyone else in category 4). If it gets to appeal you will definitely be able to use this no matter what the school have done. The question is whether it will be enough to win your appeal. That may, in part, depend on how many other parents with children in category 4 appeal.

I have sent you a PM.

techcorp · 02/03/2017 15:50

lougle - If someone is categorised under your A,B,C and D then the number of places from that place of worship is reduced.

Will query if under superscribed but it is a popular school so unlikely there will have been any.

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techcorp · 02/03/2017 15:45

prh47bridge - Thanks for that. Do I raise the issue now and see what they say as they could look into it further and realise they made a mistake on the email or do I just put all of this in my appeal. Do I inform them of their error before the appeal? If either way it is resolved before the appeal I may not be able to use this on my appeal.

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prh47bridge · 02/03/2017 15:28

Ok, so they have confirmed that you were in category 4. I think I have identified the school in question from the information you have given. If I am correct, there is no question of you missing out on a place in category 4 by random allocation and then missing out on a lower category by distance. Places only become available in category 5 and lower if there are too few applicants in category 4 and above to fill the school.

This looks like a clear mistake. Their admission criteria state that places in category 4 are allocated by random selection. I would contact them and point out that the first sentence of the tie break applies to category 4. The rest of it is for categories 5, 6 and 7 only. Also, a couple of paragraphs earlier in their published oversubscription criteria, there is a clear statement that, "where the number of applicants from any area exceeds the places available (that area's quota) then a random draw will be used to allocate places." That should put the cat among the pigeons.

The problem with the school getting this wrong is that there is no way of knowing who should have been offered places. That puts the appeal panel in a difficult position. It is clear that a mistake has been made but it is not clear that this has resulted in you missing out on a place. This will be made more difficult if other parents affected by this appeal. Even if they haven't noticed the issue, once you raise it the appeal panel must consider how it affects all the appeals.

You should definitely appeal on the basis that the school has failed to follow its published admission arrangements. You should also put together the best case you can as to why your daughter needs to go to this school. What does this school offer her that is missing from the allocated school and is particularly relevant to her. That will help you build the strongest possible appeal and will be particularly useful if the appeal panel end up having to compare the strength of appeals to decide which appeals should succeed.

lougle · 02/03/2017 15:15

Ok, that makes more sense now.

So simple things you can do:

  1. Clarify that all places went to either:

A) Children with a Statement/EHCP
B) Looked after children/Previously Looked after Children
C) Children with Medical/Social Need (if that was a category)
D) Siblings
E) Children of Faith

If they didn't, that should ring an alarm bell, because your DD fitted a higher category than the nearest child that should have been admitted on distance grounds.

What are the rules about what happens if one faith area is under subscribed? Do those places go to children from an oversubscribed faith area, or do they go to distance? E.g. if St Anne's church has 14 places but 18 children, and St Paul's Church has 14 places but 10 children, do they share them out, or do the 4 extra children from St Anne's just have to hope they live close enough that they get in on distance?

TeenAndTween · 02/03/2017 15:06

Oh I get it.
You mean e.g.
After 1,2,& 3 are allocated there are 100 places left.
There are 110 applicants for category 4, so each area is allocated a certain number, maybe 7 places for 8 applicants in area 17
They then do a random draw within area 17 and you didn't get the place.

So all category 4 get a place ahead of any category 5s.

First and foremost then as a category 4 you should be near the top of the waiting list. how are category 4s ordered on the waiting list? Random, or by distance? Or if someone from area 3 declines, does someone else from area 3 get priority over other category 4s (as that was how initial allocation was done).

Sounds very complicated.

Your area had 14 spaces.
How many applicants in your area?
Where are you on waiting list?
Will they confirm in writing explicitly that it was done on distance not random allocation? Can they give you the figure for distance last admitted in your area?

techcorp · 02/03/2017 15:04

Ok il elaborate further what I mean by area. Didn't want to go into specifics what area was but I will now. Area in my scenario is place of worship. Criteria 4 is

  1. * girls living in the city of ** who themselves or their parents attend one of the places of worship
named below (places to be allocated proportionally, as indicated, to attendees of each place of worship *).

Therefore I attend this place of worship and my daughter also attends this place of worship. The requirement was I completed the form and got it signed by our faith leader for him to confirm I attend this place of worship which he did. Sorry should have mentioned this and been more specific

OP posts:
tiggytape · 02/03/2017 15:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tiggytape · 02/03/2017 15:00

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lougle · 02/03/2017 15:00

Techcorp that sounds very messy.

It seems like one of two scenarios has taken place.

  1. Your daughter has been placed in category 4, but wrongly denied a place purely on distance. Why??

Or

  1. Your DD was allocated to category 4, correctly. A random allocation draw was held and 14 applicants were drawn for places, correctly, and your DD was unsuccessful. Your DD was then reassigned to category 6 or 7 - distance - and not allocated a place on that basis?

Either way, the letter should have told you exactly what happened, and the admissions process should tell you what happens to unsuccessful draw candidates - where do they stream to in the allocation process for fairness? They can't just disappear!

techcorp · 02/03/2017 14:54

What happens to category 4 pupils who don't get in under random allocation? Are they not admitted, or moved down to category 5?

From my understanding correct me if i'm wrong that as there were more applicants than the number of places for that area 5,6 and 7 does not apply. Also found out there were 25 applicants for that area therefore what should have happened is that 14 (minus 1,2,3) should have been randomly drawn from the 25 therefore category 5 never comes into account. Am I right? I am getting a second opinion by speaking to my daughters current school head teacher in 15 min and explain all this and see what he thinks.

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