City of London Girls full and withdrawing offers - anyone heard similar and advice?

I am utterly shocked by this rogue behavior from CLGS. Ghastly.

I agree that this is a very unpleasant addition to the joys of 11+. For some people the choices are clear and easily acted on but I don't think it is fair to suggest that everyone should know what their first choice is as soon as the results come in. It can be hard to make such decisions in abstract - I can't choose until I know I actually have a choice, and for that I need to know my child has a place in the first place. Plus quite often the child needs more exposure to the shortlist as touring and discussing 4-5 schools, ,which I gather is about the usual safe number of applications, before sitting could be very disruptive. And what if they fall in love with one they don't get into?

At the very least city should stop the pretence of offering offer-holders' tours

That is very interesting missing that CLSG has been imploring families not to apply unless they are serious. Perhaps that is why they left the consortium - because anyone entering for a consortium school might as well 'have a go' at CLSG as well, whereas entering as a one-off takes a positive decision.

I would have thought though that the 'not really serious' would not have been a huge problem for CLSG, as for many geographical areas it would be likely to be dparents' preferred choice (not expressing a view on the merits, just stating a fact!). But maybe people have started applying from a wider geographical catchment when they are closer to other super super selective schools.

Totally agree with Gavel that you can't consider the options totally clearly until you know where your dc has a place. So a problem with 'accept now or it may be gone tomorrow' is that you may rush into accepting the exploding offer when with a bit more time you might have reached the conclusion that dc would be a better fit somewhere else.

This is a very unfortunate state of affairs. I hope City have thought it through because it could backfire. Emanuel have a cutoff of the number of registrations accepted. Each year they reach the cutoff earlier than ever because panic sets in. Next year City can expect the same, but perhaps not all those accepting instantly will be firmly committed. Perhaps those placed on the waiting list will go elsewhere. It seems a very risky game to me.

The logical conclusion to all of this is that families will only apply if it is their firm first choice and they plan to accept the offer immediately. Because I agree that the offer may "explode" almost immediately after going out given the dynamics of this situation. City has been imploring families not to apply unless they are serious. I think running the whole application process had spun out of all reasonable bounds. Perhaps City is content with the logical conclusion of this set up: fewer, more committed applicants.

When we were in this position last year we decided this week, tommorow I think, the Thursday, as we went to the offer holder days for the 2 schools we couldn't decide between which were Tuesday and Thursday of this week. After being at the last one on the Thursday (i.e tommorow) the choice became obvious. We needed half term to think as one school was much further away and we wanted to make sure it was doable. It was the most ambitious one for us and we weren't necessarily expecting my child to get in. So this week and last was spent really thinking it through (which is very difficult to do when it's just an abstract "maybe they'll get in"). I'd have really resented being forced to decide before Friday of this week (which I think is reasonable) and it would have made what was already a stressful period far, far worse

I certainly wouldn't be applying to that school again for subsequent children.

Interesting to have an offer holders open day when the offers have been put back to waiting list.

There may be some withdrawals once the state school offers are known I suppose - would be interesting to know how many dparents do go for state over clsg.
So presumably what happens next year is that a) parents in the know will presumably all rush to accept CLSG on day 1, fearing that other dparents will do the same; and b) other schools may feel constrained to introduce the same system rather than lose girls to CLSG. So effectively the 'thinking period' is greatly reduced - ok, maybe you don't need a month (though the state school offers are highly relevant), but you do need some time to gather your thoughts, discuss with current dparents etc.

The CLSG open day is still happening next Tuesday. There must be 20+ offer holders who are invited but had their offers withdrawn and put on the waitlist.

I wonder how many will go and make their case to the school?

Eastlondmum, sympathies about having to explain to dd what's happened. But I'd focus on the fact that the other schools are all great as well - and not focus too much on this point, as dd may not even mind that much.

Did dd want mixed or single sex? Annoying about the accessiblility, but depending on what part of your name you live in, Channing and Highgate aren't too bad to get to and G and L is pretty straight forward if on the right tube line? Congrats to your dd by the way,

I think it is especially unfair as SPGS & G&L had offer holders' mornings yesterday and Latymer Upper had an open evening on Tuesday night. If they want people to commit early they should make their final acceptance deadline earlier. LEH used to send out a card with their offer letter asking you to state how likely you were to accept a place.

(xpost from other thread)

London schools (at least all the ones I know of) seem to have co-ordinated the process and discussed it collectively to work best for the students and for the schools. Responses all came by 10 Feb and acceptances all due by 6 March (after state school day). All schools run a waiting list to deal with under-acceptance and, to my knowledge, if you pay a deposit you get it back when they replace you with someone from the wait list. That is as fair as it can be.

City seem to be "playing the system" and stressing people to accept weeks ahead of the 6 March and even their own offer day. They also have a no-refund policy on the deposit, so it's all about making it work for them at the expense of student's ability to choose.

There will, of course, be a number of girls that have either only City as an offer, or already know that City is their first choice. But given how high the City requirement is they must know that girls will also have offers at others because they are a) bright enough and b) couldn't risk taking only one exam. Their policy discriminates against such girls. They should adopt the same policy as all the other schools and run a proper waitlist.

No George, as I understand it nobody has missed a deadline. For most schools (I think) there is still a fixed deadline - offer will remain open until that date. The difference in this case is that as another pp cleverly described it the offer 'explodes' when a certain number of pupils have accepted.

I think many parents/dds do know straight away which school they want - many others don't, big decision etc, and in some cases there are 'offer holders' open days' to attend to help make up your mind.

I think the point is they didn't miss the stated deadline, they declared it full before the deadline.

I personally think that that is a really horrible way to conduct your business as an independent school. The schools I know have put on extra classes when caught out with higher levels of acceptance than predicted. Virtually everyone waits to hear about grammar schools before accepting independent places in my area of S London. However, as long as they made this practice clear at application time, which I presume they did, then fair enough I suppose, caveat emptor. Personally it would put me off the school.

Surely all independent schools over offer and most parents should have made their minds uo by now which one they prefer instead of farting about and missing deadlines? It doesn't sound as though the poster upthread has any special circs around the decision, just faffing.

Welldone miniPrada, my very close friend's daughter goes to City, she is on track of doing medical in one of the best Univ in the country. I have met her friends from the school numerous times and they are all so lively bunch of lively girls.

Im Not surprised that they went from 65% - 100% in just a few hours as the initial email Would have caused a panic effect.
It's really sad to see children effectively having their offers taken away but based on my experience of applying for a selective school for my son a couple of years ago, Too many parents hold onto several offers leaving other children languishing on waiting lists with no offers that they can accept. We were in the fortunate position to have an offer from every school applied for and we did the morally right thing and accepted our preferred option and rejected the other two within a couple of days. But I was aware of lots of people holding onto several offers right until the deadlines and a few people who accepted a grammar place as a back up to the independent place that they had accepted (with no real intention of their child attending the grammar).
All schools over offer but most will put on a bulge class if required but I suppose if there is no space then there is no space. They should probably make less offers though and put more children on the initial waiting list

What's the 'cooling off period' - is that new? Does this mean you get all your money back if you change your mind within 14 days?

Why did CLSG decide to leave the consortium, does anyone know?

Interesting that acceptance rates vary from year to year - I would have thought it was fairly predictable. I suppose it probably has been until recently, as schools have managed with the offer/waiting list system for many years. Maybe girls are applying for more schools these days.

I suppose one theoretical reason for doing this is that if you have to over offer to be sure of getting enough students, the exploding offer means you get the 'really keen' as opposed to those who dither until the very last day (not criticising the latter, I am one of them!). Perhaps there is evidence from previous years that the early accepters settle in best.

Though this will be an iterative process - people who know about this may rush to accept next year in case they miss an e-mail. So you will be getting the 'really keen' and the very risk-averse. The risk is that it will be those in the know, who know what the implications of the 'progress report' e-mails are - those who are new to it won't realise until it is too late.

I understand the difficulty of the Barbican location and that having to put on a bulge class is the nightmare of school bursars, which they try to avoid.

However, these are issues for all schools, not just CIty. Other schools seem to manage without using this practice. They carefully judge the amount they over offer by and use a carefully managed waiting list - managed in terms of length, but also in terms of regular contact with parents to maintain goodwill when it looks as if they might draw on it. Through these approaches, they manage to fill up, avoid bulge classes most years and avoid giving parents the sense that they have no concern for the difficulties this process delivers.

I guess that if state school offers are out next Weds, parents could have accepted until 2 weeks before and then still got out under the 14 days cooling off period without making a loss. How ridiculous though......and I suspect that quite a few will have done this and come state school offers day, City will find some of those acceptances turn into people pulling out
Under the cooling off period. Just another complication in the process!

I appreciate that the info is out there. It really is 'buyer beware'. There's no scope for parents snoozing is there....not in the applying, the run up to exams, the doing the exams, even after receiving offers. It's all very much a business.

But if they are the first to offer (or earlier than others) it's very likely that people WILL have hedged their bets and accepted even if they have another first choice to take a wait and and see approach. And yes, they will be prepared to lose a deposit as a result.

Different situation but we did this at a younger stage when the three schools we were after all made offers st different times with our favourite - of course - being last. So we paid deposits on the on the other two just in case and then let them down later at which the place becomes free for someone else

So don't lose hope.

I think that's awful. If they can't do a bulge class then they should only over offer by a few places and go to waiting list if needed. Its unlikely they won't fill up, but I suppose they would worry about their reputation being damaged by going to wait list. Seems cruel to withdraw an offer, and the countdown email clearly cause down right panic in parents.

@missinglalaland makes another good point - you cannot swing a cat in the Barbican so they have to manage carefully. I do hope that the list moves for those waiting. I still maintain sending in the paperwork now would stand you in good stead given that there will be a preference to that waiting list also...

I know you are annoyed @eastlondonmum but The reality for most of the super selectives is that they are chasing the same girls. I don't think this favours those who can pay at all - a great number of City girls receive financial assistance and they did not have to supply the deposit. It was waived. If you do play school contract roulette, you will get burned at some point. All schools over-offer to a degree and as much as CLSG doesn't want to think that this still happens even after they withdrew from the consortium, many kids still sit multiple (too many) exams. They were clear at the open days that most who sit their school exam want their school. CLSG is very fair in advising parents of the progression in acceptances - and to be fair, it is new to them how many will accept outside of the old consortium. Other schools do not advise acceptances, but your child may still not have their offer honoured. As an example, most people I know with a SPGS place accepted and paid pretty much the same week. The situation will be no different there, it is just not advertised. The final acceptance deadline is the 6th but no school says explicitly you have until that date to make up your mind - it is the date upon which they will withdraw their offer to your child. My DD held three offers and today I released the other two so that someone else can take the place. There was only two (very different) that we genuinely had to decide between but I knew CLSG was the right school. You must know honestly which school you want for her?

Three years ago City had so many girls accept that they had to lay on an additional class that year. City is in a very tightly constrained, grade 1 listed building. They literally can not lay on an additional class again until that bulge Year graduates. Additional portable classrooms, etc are just not possible in the Barbican.

This is how they have chosen to manage their constraint. I completely understand why you are frustrated.

I agree with the outrage. We are deciding between Channing, South Hampstead and City. DD doesn't want to do the tube, so City is out, but prefers SHHS although Channing is closer.

I personally found the 'exploding offer' really off putting and a sign that the school cares more about its own status - as in look how popular we are - than about the girls. SHHS clearly state that in line with good practice they of course honour all offers up to the deadline. That is how it should be.