I'm experimenting in teaching French to DD

Is Duolingo any good for people who don't speak any of a particular language? I can speak fairly fluently in French and German, and also enjoyed and was talented at Latin, but really want to learn Italian - I pick up languages really quickly so am wondering if it would be worth giving it a try?

DC in other countries who learn English as an MFL mostly have the advantage of already knowing about grammar from study of their own language. It gives them a framework on which to hang English.

I was just reading about two Danish actors who practised their English as kids learning and repeating sketches from Monty Python.

I wish my kids could learn English as a second language!

To learn a language effectively it has to be done continuously, not just for a couple of hours a week, with half of that time spent taking the register and handing out worksheets etc etc. We can't compete on language learning with other countries where they are bombarded with the English language non-stop - pop songs, films etc. Although as I said upthread the Italians seem immune to any influence - perhaps it's because all their foreign (US) tv etc is dubbed instead of being subtitled which is the way in Scandinavia I believe.

How to improve things here is difficult. Languages do not fit into the modular learning way of doing things. If you have little knowledge of English grammar you are on a hiding to nothing. And, like it or not, most people and definitely most kids feel that learning a foreign language is a waste of time. I'm not talking here about middle-class dcs of liberal remainers who just lurrrrve France and cheese and Charles Trenet and wotnot, but the vast swathes of people who do not enjoy learning for learning's sake and see languages as difficult and pointless.

I worked with a woman who had picked up French by living there with family for 15 years. My colleagues said that although fluent she made far more errors than I did.

I could not understand spoken French when I arrived but after a while the underlying grammar that I had learned kicked in and provided me with a framework. Thank you boring old O and A level!

The trouble is, there is not sufficient lesson time to fit in all the topics you have to teach and still manage to teach grammar properly (which essentially means going back to total basics because the kids don't know any English grammar, so they don't understand how any of it works at all). But it's no good just focussing on the grammar, because then they won't actually have enough vocab or fluency to be able to speak.

Essentially, mfl have never been taught well in this country. They are not regarded as a priority by schools, pupils or parents. They are unlike other subjects, in that they ideally need short lesson every day, rather than an hour twice a week. And, as everyone has already said, the exams/assessments and syllabi are crap.

I've been an mfl teacher for 20 years and I don't know what the answer is. Or rather, I don't know of an answer that governments or schools would actually find acceptable.

I hope at least that one of the upsides of the generally awful new KS2 SATS will be that kids will have a better (if a little skewed and OTT) understanding of English grammar until the SATS get changed yet again .

My DH has been using Duolingo to revive his French, and he says it's v good. He did have a throrough grammar grounding to begin with though, so not sure how much of his study has been in that aspect.

Sorry to ask, but bobo perhaps you could assist on a thread over in chat "who was this actress?" Re Parisian funeral corteges?

didgeridooda - you may think it over the top but sadly French Is not like English and you cannot hope to pick French grammar up without formal instruction. It is not appropriate to extrapolate from English.

My DD (Year 9) has given up. She's missed a few lessons due to being unwell. The curicullum makes no sense to her, she doesn't want to do the subject for GCSE and says that if she want to learn the language she will do so when she is older. I am learning with an adult group with a native French teacher. Chalk and cheese.

French DC spend years drilling conjugation and then practicing it in exercises, dictation, essay writing etc. It's hard work!

I have bought a traditional French course book with grammar to start with my 11year old. I haven't yet had the courage to open it!

Duolingo is good but is can only get him so far!

My very modest goal is that he should learn the present tense regular verb forms plus etre and avoir. My older child never even got to grips with that; I recognise the post which mentioned just knowing je and tu forms.

They do indeed Bobochic we have lists, posters, reminders etc on every available surface to help DS2 in CE2 (8 years old) DS1's grammar is way ahead of mine so he's on his own...
With French, I really think you need some grammar to make sense of what you're saying iyswim - even simple phrases would be hard without knowing avoir/etre/verb endings for instance. For me anyway.

didgeridooda - I don't want to discourage you, but French DC spend ages in the classroom learning grammar. It doesn't come to them quickly and easily!

It's a very fair point, MrsBernardBlack. When a qualification is no guarantee of an education it's somewhat worrying.

This is the difference between having a qualification in a subject, i.e. A in GCSE, and having an education i.e. actually being able to understand and communicate in a language.
Modern schooling seems to have confused the two.

I was glad to do hardly any speaking in my O and A Level languages. I hate speaking out loud even now! I agree with FreshStartJanuary that now it seems to be neither one thing nor t'other, in that the speaking bit is learnt off by heart and there is barely any grammar.

Back in my day (my constant refrain) we had to do unseen translation back and forth and also write a short essay with a given title. I still remember the French one was "A tiger has escaped from the zoo..." My piece consisted of quite a few "Au secours!" and "Sacre bleu!"s

jenpetronus - as another parent with DC who have gone through/are in the French system, I agree that the teaching of language fundamentals is way more thorough and effective in French schools than in English schools. I'm also agog at how much English and American literature my DD (5eme) is covering this year - Call of the Wild, Moby Dick, Oliver Twist... I'm not sure English DC study French authors much in Y8 in their literature class!

Cheryl I agree. My O level s and even an a level didn't get me speaking much but gave me a grammatical base to build on. I know it didn't work for everyone but the current methods seem to work for noone.

I thought O level French did nothing to help you speak the language but many years down the line I realised, when doing DS's GCSE homework, that it was a hell of a lot more useful than anything he had learned. I did an O level course that was mainly paper based as I came from an area with an accent not compatible with French, so the school chose to do that.

However, the work DS did for his oral was what we were doing in the first year.

The MFL teachers at DC's school were great, BTW, and well aware of the deficiencies. They tried very hard to counteract the lack of interest in the school (and it was a 'nice' comprehensive) and there were just not enough of them.

If I had been more switched on and French stuff as available online as it is now, I should have done what you are doing, OP. I did buy some extra books, but it was heavy going.

DD is really excited about starting A level spanish. It seems to be far more rounded.
She's excited to learn about the politics, culture and history of spanish speaking countries along side the language.
Sounds like it will be a far more holistic learning experience rather than learning things in isolation, with no relevance or reference to real life.
I would like to add that I think MFL teachers do an incredible job given their restrictions. It must be so hard to be passionate about your subject yet be so constrained by a curriculum that neither inspires nor excites your students.
A huge opportunity wasted.

The new ones are slightly better but still not near where they should be, A-level seems more grammar focussed.

GCSE languages are a joke. I did mine in the early 00's - I really can't speak French at all. I can understand and write a little bit, using a dictionary for support, and can say a few learnt by rote phrases. I got an A. It's nonsense.

As a parent of DC's going through the French system I find this really interesting - and sad. The system here is odd in many ways imho, but the basics of grammar are solidly taught (in English & Spanish anyway I haven't a clue what he learns in Latin as I don't know a single word) It's a wasted opportunity and quite awful the curriculem is so lacking in the UK.