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Original poster

Justine Greening grubs around for grammar school support after disastrous consultation

215 replies

noblegiraffe · 22/12/2016 09:29

Despite the grammar school consultation only closing recently, the results not yet being published, and many high-profile education organisations condemning the plans, Justine Greening has decided to try to whip up Tory support for grammar schools by sending an email to Conservative party members and backers asking for them to support a grammar school campaign.

Ignoring all the evidence that this is a stupid and costly mistake, with real implications for parents who want to send their children to comprehensive schools and for disadvantaged children, she has described how 'popular' they are with parents, who perhaps aren't as well informed on education issues as the organisations and professionals who publicly responded to the consultation.

schoolsweek.co.uk/government-launches-pro-grammar-schools-campaign-just-days-after-official-consultation-closes/

Is this pigheaded or just desperate?

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/12/2016 09:05

Private schools are being told, per the green paper, that they will have to admit significantly more poor kids on bursaries than they are at the moment.

Which is why they said 'sure, but only if the DfE pays for them' Hmm

OP posts:
TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 23/12/2016 09:03

'It's far easier to discover faith than prepare your child for a superselective grammar school exam'

That would rather depend on the child...

Clavinova · 23/12/2016 09:02

Fitting the criteria of the entrance exam and being able to get to the school miles from home are humongous obstacles
You are right - half the anti-grammar school posters on this thread send their own dc miles away from home (up to an hour's journey each way) to avoid their local 'good' comprehensives and access much better comprehensive schools elsewhere.

roundaboutthetown · 23/12/2016 09:02

Private schools will never broaden their demographic that much. If they do, grammar schools will start to look a bit more attractive again. Grin

minifingerz · 23/12/2016 09:01

Green ginger - hat half the national average that still means the worst top comps admit three times as many dc's on FSM as grammars!

And I'd bet my house on it that the intake of top comps is vastly more representative of the area in which it's situated than your average grammar.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/12/2016 08:59

What will happen when the private schools are forced to broaden their demographic?

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BertrandRussell · 23/12/2016 08:58

"Clavinola that is interesting, why do you think parents are starting to swing away from grammars to private seconday schools in your borough?"

Could well be because some grammar schools are trying to broaden the their demographic.........

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/12/2016 08:54

There's no question that if children from DS1's school went to DS2's school instead, they'd do better.

Not if they all did. If you swapped all the kids around from best comp to sink comp, what do you think would happen?

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roundaboutthetown · 23/12/2016 08:52

Fitting the criteria of the entrance exam and being able to get to the school miles from home are humongous obstacles most easily scaled by the wealthier and better prepped.

Ciutadella · 23/12/2016 08:51

Clavinola that is interesting, why do you think parents are starting to swing away from grammars to private seconday schools in your borough? Is it the extra curricular things, or a perception that grammars can be too pressurised, or some other reason?

roundaboutthetown · 23/12/2016 08:50

FSM going up at the same time as the wealthiest pulling out to go to private school is just indicative of the real problem, though - being intelligent will never be quite enough.

Clavinova · 23/12/2016 08:49

But you have to fit the rest of the criteria for the girls' school as well - faith, postcode etc.

roundaboutthetown · 23/12/2016 08:47

Still a 50/50 chance of being the right sex, though. Those are quite good odds.

Clavinova · 23/12/2016 08:44

It is far easier to discover faith than prepare your child for a superselective grammar
Not if they need a sex-change first!

roundaboutthetown · 23/12/2016 08:41

It's far easier to discover faith than prepare your child for a superselective grammar school exam. Grin You also stand far better odds of being the right sex for a school than passing an entrance exam for a superselective grammar school. Being rigorously prepared for an entrance exam is a colossal help in passing it - family background still matters hugely. Faith, sex and entrance exam are all ways of screening out those considered undesirable.

Clavinova · 23/12/2016 08:41

Actually, I think it shows that some of the grammars are starting to take more disadvantaged pupils again - certainly in my borough, parents are starting to turn away from the grammars and switch back to the private schools.

Clavinova · 23/12/2016 08:37

I cannot see the current fsm rate for these schools - the 'disadvantaged' figures seem to back mine. There is a much bigger percentage gap in terms of fsm between the best and worst comprehensives in this example than the grammars and the sports college.

ChristmasCava · 23/12/2016 08:36

Tis a bit Groundhog day here isn't it?
Grin.

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2016 08:35

Although it does occur to me that there should be some sort of file of regular posters responses to things. Then we could just link to "7b!"

BertrandRussell · 23/12/2016 08:32

Ooh good- a grammar school thread for Christmas! I'll be back later......

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/12/2016 08:30

Clavinova the figures are different because one is FSM (as in currently on FSM) and one is FSM ever 6.

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Clavinova · 23/12/2016 08:24

I don't think Mini's figures are correct though. Her nearest grammar schools must be in the London Borough of Sutton - her dc would have been eligible to sit the 11+ for Wilsons, Sutton Grammar and Wallington County Grammar - their fsm rates (last 6 years) appear to be 5.8% , 6.7 % and 8.5% not 1.9% - 2.5%. The worst performing school in Sutton (a boys' sports college) only has a fsm rate of 38.6%, the worst performing comprehensives in her borough must be 60% + fsm. If one of her local comps has a fsm rate of 10% what method of selection are they using - faith, girls only, partial selection? Can she access the 4 good/outstanding comps she mentions for her own dc - or are they the wrong sex/wrong faith/wrong postcode? She can access the grammars in the nearby borough if her dc score highly enough in the test.

roundaboutthetown · 23/12/2016 08:21

One things is for sure: grammar schools will not do anything whatsoever to improve the chaotic schools with high staff turnover and badly behaved children, TresDesolee. Just imagine your ds's school, but with even fewer families motivated to do well in education attending it.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 23/12/2016 08:20

How are we defining 'best comp'? Because people usually define best comp by best results, however headline figures are meaningless at deciding whether a school is actually any good at what it does or not.

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TresDesolee · 23/12/2016 08:17

And the whole 'background is destiny' thing is fundamentally what we have to change, isn't it? As a society it's no good (as well as being cruel and deeply immoral) to just blithely accept that a big group of kids will fail at school because of their parents' income or home life. We need to do so much better by these children.

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