What's God got to do with it?!

What riverside describes is unusual, IME. Hereabouts its as bertrand describes. Except, the RC schools aren't that good by and large, so it applies mainly to (some of) the CofE. Exact details of admissions and how they play out in practise vary by area.

When we were first starting to look at schools admissions roughly 15 years ago, we were astonished at there being a rule that baptised catholic kids who went to an RC school were prioritized for the (not that good) RC secondaries and back of the queue for others. Which as secularists who believe in neither privilege nor discrimination based on religion appalled us. Glad to say that was got rid of

Oh, and do the two schools you mention have no faith criterion at all?

A faith school will take children who fulfill the faith criteria from increasingly far away. Only when there are no more faith applicants will they admit on distance alone.

Banding is an interesting one. Does the make up of the schools you mention reflect the local area, the national picture or the children who applied? And does the % of pupil premium pupils reflect the number in the local area?

Yep BertrandRussell is talking bollocks. Our two local outstanding RC schools assess all applicants, divide them into three ability groups, then take 33 per cent from each.

But I'm sure she'd prefer to believe otherwise!

Bertraind from your post of 09.26 It is the oversubscription followed by selection that makes the school perform better, not the faith."

further selection when oversubscribed (assuming it is oversubscribed with children meeting the faith criteria) is then based on DISTANCE. How is this selecting the most intelligent?

True enough, Bertrand, but the principle still stands: faith or non-faith religion is not all about school. It's also about home environment and making an active commitment to taking responsibility for part of your child's education. And that children have their own opinions by Y7, and will make up their own minds.

If one of the comps became a Grammar school you would see the Catholic school loses its ability to do any creaming.

"So, had my only viable choice been s faith school, I would not have been overly worried about that aspect."

But if it was an oversubscribed school you wouldn't get in even if you lived next door to it.

As a person of a specific faith, I did not want my dc to go to a primary school of a different faith. (I didn't want them to go to a primary school of my faith, either, but that's a different issue.) A 'faith-neutral' school would, by far and away, be my preference for both primary and secondary.

By secondary, however, they had a much clearer sense of who they were in terms of religion and personal belief, and in how we, as a family, were a little different to the majority around them. So, had my only viable choice been s faith school, I would not have been overly worried about that aspect.

Even a faith school has to respect the plurality of beliefs in this country, and the parents' right to withdraw their dc from religious activities.

Your home environment also educates your children. If you feel that a faith school presents only one perspective which you disagree with, it's up to you to present alternatives without denigrating and disrespecting others.

"Since when did being a Catholic make you cleverer?"

It doesn't. Please see my post of 09.28

I don't disagree with your points BUT
However you look at it, this local RC school is creaming off the brightest kids, and bringing them in from miles around to continue boosting their exam results and perpetuating the whole cycle. just isn't true. Since when did being a Catholic make you cleverer?

It's practising not practicing, BertrandRussell.

But maybe I only know that because I went to a faith school

If the point of that last comment was that people who don't like the unfairness in schools admissions is that they can always home ed, again hope that is a joke like 'move or private' hmm

Not at all. Just correcting a factual error.

I'm the first one pushing for all religious instruction to be removed from schools.

I still don't see that there should be any place for religion in our education system

And if you want a religious education for your child you should pay for private education.

If the point of that last comment was that people who don't like the unfairness in schools admissions is that they can always home ed, again hope that is a joke like 'move or private'

its compulsory education that impacts the rest of your life.

School isn't compulsory.

Taxpayer's cash ensures that in the 10 mile radius from my house, there are just 3 schools that take heathen children. The rest are Jewish, Catholic, Islamic and Christian. You might get a few heathens slipping in if they were lucky enough to get to the bottom of the admissions list, but the rest of us have to fight over the 3 plain ol' Schools, and then be shipped out to neighbouring towns and cities.

I am an avid supporter and active campaigner of the Free Schools Admission appeal, which aims to remove the religious discrimination in our education system.

They have the same resources, the catholic school just has the shinier, more up to date versions.

The system sucks and you do not come across as snobby and pushy.

The schools will have the same resources- just different cohorts. Because selection.

But Christian privilege is so entrenched in out society that there is no chance of doing anything about it. And the "I''m all right jackery" of the Christians on Mumsnet has to read to be believed.

I think I did find that, Bertrand, as that's what I said

just that I'm cross because government resources have gone to support this exclusive form of education, and it seems to be at the expense of other, mainly poorer families who have no choice but to send their kids to the more under-resourced school just down the road

sorry - this is total tosh
are you saying that there is some government department that gives more money to a school because it has a Catholic / religious emphasis - sorry, not sure it works like that...

there will be all sorts of reasons why one school is more middle class, and the other less / why one is better resourced & the other not so well kitted out / why one is performing better & the other not... many of those reasons may indeed be the culture / ethos / rules / drive / atmosphere of a Catholic school v. the more traditional state school - but to suggest that it is because of government resources supporting those differences is perhaps not quite right?!

basic way education is funded:

• money per child
• extras where children might need extra support (e.g. FSM etc.)
• some money may be creamed off e.g. LA run school v. all going to the school e.g. Academy
• extra funding can be available for political initiatives (new builds / academies or free schools /etc.)
• money raised by parents / school / supporters / sponsorship / etc.

nowhere in there is arbitrary funding for Catholics....

"What OP and many other parents are saying is that faith isn't on their radar in life until the school down the road is Outstanding. Which is tough."

I think you'll find that faith isn't on many parents' radar until they discover they can't get into the school down the road and somebody from 5 miles away can.

As I said. Think of the idea of faith hospitals or faith libraries. Ridiculous, right?

And to clarify, faith schools can't choose from their applicants. Once they meet the criteria of practicing baptised catholics it usually then goes on distance. Admissions are handled by the local authority, not by the school or the church.