Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Original poster

Does anyone know how they prioritise applications, eg if you put a school as first choice will you have more chance of getting it?

32 replies

iwouldgoouttonight · 08/10/2016 11:48

We're not applying for our catchment school because it's really not good, but it means it's likely we won't get the choices we want. We'd like to have as our three choices:

  1. Preferred school (brilliant school, think DD would thrive there, 20 mins on bus, but massively oversubscribed and last year only those with siblings already there got in from our primary school)
  2. Second preferred school (wouldn't mind this one at all, only reason it's second is that it's a bit further away, 30-40mins on bus, this is also oversubscribed but some from our primary got in last year even without siblings)
  3. Nearest school to us, although not our catchment one (not our preferred third choice but would be likely to get a place looking at who they took last year, OK school, not brilliant but best of the ones we'd be likely to definitely get a place at, so kind of a 'banker' to prevent us getting the catchment school)

Do my question is, as we think we have a slightly better chance of getting into school 2 than school 1, will we be given less of a priority because we didn't put it first?

I know the priorities are things like looked after children, siblings, catchment, etc and we don't meet any of them for any of the schools, it would be down to distance. But do they judge all applications equally regardless of where you put them on the list? Or do they give all first choice places and then all second choice places, etc?

Or does it differ by local authority? (We're in England btw)

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
prh47bridge · 11/10/2016 17:09

3asAbird

School 1 is lying. They cannot guarantee you a place off waitlists. Just as with ordinary admissions they cannot prioritise people who name the school as first preference. All the LA's admissions team are really saying is that you'll have a good chance of getting a place if you list it as one of your preferences. School 1 also has to offer you a place off the waitlist if you are drawn out of the hat even if there are others who named it as first choice.

Put the schools in your actual order of preference.

HPFA · 11/10/2016 15:30

We had this conversation on another thread and I still find it absolutely shocking that Heads are lying about this. I thought it was a one-off at a school near me but it seems to be absolutely everywhere. I am sure there must be people who have missed out on a place at their preferred school because of this. If Justine Greening wanted to do something actually useful to improve access to good schools she could do worse than have a decent publicity campaign on this.

mirpuppet · 11/10/2016 15:05

tiggytape and prh47bridge Thank you.

I was doubting my understanding of the process. It is a new school so no siblings. I think they just want to fill the school with pupils.

3asAbird · 11/10/2016 14:46

So prh

Which to put 1sr

School 1 random allocation but local
School 2 nearby county most likely get offer 2nd round.

School 1 saying if you put us 1st we guarantee you place off waitlists.
It's a state academy in nearby la.
Spoke to their admissions they said as lots go private it's possibility

I want good chance at both but be happy with 3rd Co ed academy which works on distance 3miles so fairly close and historically under , was under 1st round last year hut head year 7 saying if you don't put us 1st you stand no chance as they had 143 1st preference places last year out if 216.

But I'm right in thinking schools 2 and school 3 have to offer place off waitlist if available if I'm nearer even if others listed ut 1st if I listed it 2nd or 3rd doesn't predjudice offer .

prh47bridge · 10/10/2016 14:56

What Admissions have told you is accurate. The fact you list a school as your second or third choice does not reduce your chance of getting a place.

Waiting lists are indeed held in admission criteria order. When you apply and which choice you name the school is irrelevant. Note that school 1 has to conduct a fresh random draw every time a place becomes available.

3asAbird · 10/10/2016 14:09

2 schools have said things about 1st preference which confused me.

Head of year 7 said at open day we oversubscribed last year if you don't list us 1st you stand no chance.

So I rang local council admissions who said I was right equal preference if we list this scholl as 3rd and we live close enough we may still get it.

Also did some digging it wasent oversubscribed until 2nd round in may so I'm guessing if based on last year's figures we stand a chance 3 miles door to door but difficult la.

Another school head told parents if they list schools 1st they nearly always get a place.
So again rang up admissions and they said there's a heck of lot of movement 2nd round so it's possible people like me further away to get it as furthest distance increases 2nd round and many go private but still seems a risk as 3 we like outside of catchment and no 1 is random allocation fair banded oversubscribed

I'm assuming waitlists keep same order as admissions criteria so if we put school b or c as 2nd / 3rd get get none of our 3.
We stay on waitlists for all with 2 schools based on distance if there's movements 2nd round and we live closer than someone who lives slightly further away that we get place offered 1st.

Hersetta427 · 10/10/2016 12:44

The school usually have an admissions officer who should be able to provide that information if not provided by the council. I have spoken to the schools we are interested in and they were very helpful.

prh47bridge · 10/10/2016 10:16

Some LAs publish this information in a document that is available on their website - take a look at the documents available for parents applying for secondary schools to download. If it isn't there you can ask the LA. They should have that information.

Original poster
iwouldgoouttonight · 10/10/2016 08:27

Thanks all, I'm glad I asked because I do feel reassured now. Does anyone know if they publish anywhere how many children out of catchment or without siblings got into schools last year?

OP posts:
tiggytape · 09/10/2016 22:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prh47bridge · 09/10/2016 22:58

Is that correct

It is. The academy will not know whether you have named them as first preference or not. They cannot, by law, prioritise people for putting them down as first choice. They are either mistaken or they are deliberately lying to try and boost their numbers. You should stick with your plan and use the academy as backup.

mirpuppet · 09/10/2016 22:15

I was told by an academy representative that if people live further away by distance put the academy down as their first choice that even though I live closer to the academy those who put as a first preference would get the space over me.

I think this is not correct and that it will be based on distance. The academy does not have a banding test.

Is that correct? I was planning on putting a school that I prefer and that is oversubscribed first and use the academy as a back up.

prh47bridge · 09/10/2016 21:26

What's a Harris academy

An academy run by the Harris Federation. They run a number of academies in London.

One of the schools on our list is an academy, not sure if they have different application process

An academy may have a different application process in its first year of operation. Thereafter you apply through the LA in the normal way. However, the academy will have its own admission criteria and may require applicants to be tested if they use fair banding, so you need to check.

I think they did promise all first choice applicants a place last year and then failed to deliver on that

I occasionally come across a schools saying this. No school can make such a promise. They will not be told which applicants named the school as first choice. They cannot prioritise applications that name the school as first choice. The only way a school can guarantee this is if they are undersubscribed and therefore able to offer a place to everyone who applies.

tiggytape · 09/10/2016 18:37

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
iwouldgoouttonight · 09/10/2016 17:37

What's a Harris academy? One of the schools on our list is an academy, not sure if they have different application process? I think they did promise all first choice applicants a place last year and then failed to deliver on that.

OP posts:
Missingthesea · 09/10/2016 17:28

Sorry, first choice ON the CAF.

They do have an unusual selection process, mind you....a fair banding test, then places are offered by lottery, 90% to people living within 1.7. miles and 10% to those further away than 1.7 miles.

Missingthesea · 09/10/2016 17:23

Our local Harris Academy warns that you have no chance of a place unless it is the first choice of the CAF. I take it they are just pulling a fast one then, wanting to be able to boast of how many people put it as their first choice?

MrGrumpy01 · 09/10/2016 15:02

I have no idea how the computers actually work this out, it makes my head hurt even thinking about it.

Undersmile · 09/10/2016 14:49

You have to check each school's admission criteria - they can all vary, even within one LA. That said, the schools do not know which order you put your preferences, only that you have put in a preference, and if you meet the criteria, you're on their list. LA goes down your preferences and allocates the first one you meet the criteria for.

MrGrumpy01 · 09/10/2016 14:45

I've discussed at great length about not putting down what her friends are, for starters the primary school catchment is split down the middle by 2 secondary catchments, a 3rd school covers the whole area but has sibling link with those without at a gamble to get a place.

I have really stressed that because of the way places are allocated there is no guarantee they will all get in to the same place.

Original poster
iwouldgoouttonight · 09/10/2016 14:13

HPFA I think you're right, and I think we'll almost certainly put a 'safe' option as third, even though it's not one of our preferred schools, it's much better than what we could get.

Now just need to pursuade DD of this. She wants to put the preferred three, even though we may well not get into them. This is mainly based on her best friend putting them and she desperately wants them to stay together. She can't get her head around the fact that if we don't get any of the choices they may end up in totally different schools the other side of the city.

OP posts:
HPFA · 09/10/2016 11:26

Just to say - I think it would be quite dangerous not to use your third choice to put down a school you think you're almost certain to get into. If you don't get one of your three choices the Council will give you the nearest school with spare places - which could be miles away and worse than your catchment school. If your 3rd choice is generally OK it would be much safer to have that on your form than one you prefer but have not much chance of getting into.

MrGrumpy01 · 08/10/2016 19:13

If you look a bit further down I started a thread called 'your final choice school, which asks a little on the same lines.

It is a tough decision, but I am hoping that I have a reasonable chance of the getting my 1st or 2nd choice. I actually prefer the 2nd but the 1st is better for the family (mainly around future housing plans)

elfonshelf · 08/10/2016 18:53

If you don't get allocated your first choice (or even your second choice) in April, you can always go on the waiting list for a place. Quite often places come up, especially after the start of term - you generally need to re-register for the waiting lists on the 1st September.

DD was 42nd on the waiting list for our first choice over the summer and we got a place 3 weeks into the start of YR - 2 children never turned up and 2 children got places at their 1st choices and left. Most of the schools in the area were good and so most parents hadn't bothered re-registering for the waiting list after the start of term.

AllotmentyPlenty · 08/10/2016 17:46

Put your real preferences but make sure that at least one choice is a school that you have a very realistic chance of getting into.