ASD in mainstream secondary

The ed psych made some really good key points....and asked that they be issued to all staff who teaches DS.
The SENCO said she would take the copy and give it to all his teachers,

So now, I'm e letting that to have been done. It actually makes recommendations to staff...so for example "DS won't ask for help so alternative monitoring will be needed to assess progress".

Sorry on app so can't make quote bold!

So Ed Psych said to share key points. That's NOT the same as expecting teachers to read full report. I'm probably about to get flamed for this but I'm wondering how your relate with the SenCo is. It's coming across that you don't trust them to do their job (by photocopying reports etc) and then refusing supports they are offering.

Also the example comment about different monitoring - that would not tell me to expect the issues you've described regarding the ruler or toilet.

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Reading these contributions enlightens me as to why dd's support in secondary was initially so dire in spite of her having a good statement
Thankfully the school messed up and I am definitely the wrong parent to mess with so now her support works the way I want it, given by the staff I approved, documented how I want it (which keeps them on task and stops them from slacking or taking the piss) and overseen by the HT which means the SENCo behaves herself as well I'm sure they rue the day they messed up but for dd it was the best thing to happen because now they do it properly.

DS1 had a wobl watch that we set for certain times during the day to remind him to go to the toilet. It vibrates so is discreet. He is in primary so the school told us what times to set it but ou could set it for 5 minutes before end of break times so he k led he needs to go to the loo before next class?

Which is why for my DC's secondary school, before each one joined I had discussions with the SENCO in which we agreed on the key points which needed to be understood, and what accommodations could be made. These were then communicated to the relevant staff, and a summary was put in the student file (eg. should be allowed to leave the classroom if she needs to - eg. is overwhelmed).

Longlost10 - the problem with the situation of the child being restrained is: they will have been demonstrating behaviours before the incident which would have indicated that they were not coping. In an good situation they would be being monitored by a TA who would remove them, and give them space to refocus and calm.
In the worst case situation the other child/children should have been removed. That is the child in the wheelchair removed from the situation, rather than a child being pinned down.

you can't read every report for every child even if they are available, you would never have the time, and you wouldn't remember the contents anyway...

( remembering one family who's private assessments on their DD occupied an entire drawer of of filing cabinet......she had no SEN to speak of, the only line I remember from all of her reports is the one in which the ed psych suggested she was perhaps suffering from being assessed too much....)

seriously, they are not likely to be available, and if they are, you are looking at THOUSANDS of pages in total anyway, not worth embarking on, not possible to finish, and not possible to remember

Verbena I have never read an EdPsych report for a student - they are kept locked in secure files and are not shared in detail. Obviously some recommendations and any key points will be shared with teaching staff but very much in summary form.

Again it feels that you are criticising teaching staff for not taking the time to read the report you shared; it may well be that they haven't read it because they wouldn't be expected or permitted to.

I fully sympathise op. I have 2 hf ASD children one in y6 one in y8 and they both struggle with these issues around toilets, break times, group work many other issues. I have to be in contact with the senco regularly. I am trying to get a meeting at the moment. DD in y6 has wet herself three times this term because she doesn't like using the loo in school when it is busy. She also got in trouble for being in the loo for 15 mins during class time this week (she regularly has digestive issues has done all her life) her teacher told her that she would no longer be allowed to go to the loo in class time. This coil be a big problem ds pooed himself at school in y6 and did not seek help from a teacher or ask to go him a lunchtime. He spent the day uncomfortable and smelly .

Teachers do need to understand that asd means that children might not ask for help, or respond to things they are told the same way as other children. Hf does not mean they find things easy to deal with and with the best will in the world fostering independence may take a little longer.

sorry that should say "have so many children on their timetable that they cannot possibly realistically be expected to know them all by sight"

atom, you misunderstood what I said. There is no official ranking system, it is just that teachers cannot possibly know everybody on their timetable simultaneously, and most will take care that they know the ones with life threatening conditions first. That is all.

Some teachers have so many teachers on their timetable that there is no realistic possibility that they will ever know them all by sight.

will have led to that staff member tackling an ADHD child to the ground no, what lead to the child being tackled to the ground was that he was seconds from permanently disabling another child. And anybody who argues that "procedures should have been followed" are presumably saying its fine for another child's spine to be broken whilst we painstakingly plod through the rule book

Your school sounds chaotic. I am not describing one school, I have been in ten throughout September

Longlost the SN support ranking system that your school utilises (which is in breach of the equality act and the SEND code of practice) will have led to that staff member tackling an ADHD child to the ground. Your school sounds chaotic.

mummytime I was trying to support Verbana39 by explaining what is different in some children with ASD. I am sorry if you felt I was insulting you, I was responding to your comment of "For a ruler, there was no need for him to leave class - he could have borrowed one." I was trying to explain why some/many children with ASD cannot do this. When a child starts secondary school it take s a while for teachers to get to know the children, and so it is harder for them to spot the subtle bullying. Yes good communication with the school is vital.

"willitbe - thanks for you damming of my knowledge of ASD - so helpful!" - I was not damming your knowledge of ASD but as you say if YOU know one person with ASD you know one person with ASD. I could fully see what Verbena37 was saying about the ruler as my ds has exactly the same issue. It is not that the ruler/pencil/pencilcase.... are expensive or anything to do with that, it is purely any possession is what he does not like anyone else touching. It is not that it is "precious" to him, it is just that he can't cope with anyone touching any of his possessions. There is no "reason" for it, just a reaction. My son would absolutely not be able to cope with taking extra things in his pencil case in case other people want to borrow them, so your simple solution for your daughter, would not work for my son. Yes the bullying / teasing should have been stopped immediately, but when a child is in a fight/flight reaction, then explaining what has just happened to the teacher is not practical in the amount of time. So instead there is a perceived punishment of detention for being special needs. The fact that it is not really a detention would not necessarily be realised at the time (when in a heightened stress situation).

In this particular situation, the child asked to go look for the ruler in the toilet, and was given a "detention". The fact that it was not a detention was not obvious to the child. Yes children should get detentions for bad behaviour, when it is justified. I am happy for you that for your children "being reassured that there is no punishment outside of school, and that it is not a big thing has helped them cope" has worked for you. It has not for my ds. If my son was told off for something on a Friday, that reassurance would do nothing for the whole weekend, he would still go into school on Monday upset for getting told off (no matter if it was justified or not). When I say that I am talking about the teacher telling all the boys in the class off for messing around, when actually maybe two of the boys might have been sitting and getting on with work fine, my son would feel that telling off personally even when not involved. The old teachers knew this and many adapted their use of generalized language to stop encompassing children who were not involved. But many overworked secondary school teachers do not see this as significant, as it is not life-threatening. They do not see the stress levels of my son all weekend.

I was offended to read "It may be a personal possession, but if the child is unable to borrow a ruler either: a) The child should have far more support to remain in Mainstream (1:1 TA) or should be in a special school" 1:1 TA nor a special school would be either appropriate or necessary for my son. He is high intelligence and copes incredibly well for most things. But he is susceptible to bullying in situations where he is not known, as in the start of secondary school. In this way he does need more support than some of his peers. Your attitude towards others with children with ASD is lacking in the same way in which you accuse me. Just because you know your child with ASD does not mean that you know all children with ASD. Your simple solutions for your daughter would not work at all for my son. This is the problem that faces teachers.

b) the incident of "hiding a ruler" should have instantly been escalated as bullying.". - yes b) recognising it as bullying is what should happen, but in real life it is not always supported by teachers who make comments like "boys will be boys". Please don't presume it is possible for all children with autism to get help from teachers, they are overworked and not able to provide what is necessary for the children who cope most of the time.

It is nice that your daughter is doing so well, but it would be nice for you to show some understanding to parents whose children with ASD, who are struggling with the start of secondary school, and all the issues that this involves.

The behaviour in Finland is completely different

Longlost10 - I don't think its many as its not true of any school I or my cousins have worked in.

Finland is a pretty homogenous culture, has few "foreign" students. I'm not sure how they handle SN.

Admittedly Finland and other Scandinavian countries spend more on education, tend to give more respect to teachers AND spend more on early years. They also pay higher taxes. Its a choice.

ok, I will be more precise, but it isn't "some" schools, it is "many"

I think you need to be careful to say 'in some schools' because l've never heard of it and I'm a teacher. I deliberately give students little snippets of info (Can't mark your books tonight because I'm watching Bake-Off, followed by a bit of discussion of favourite bakers) because I think it helps students if they are being taught by a human. In all the child protection training I've had there's been nothing about chatting to kids.

I agree its ridiculous, noblegiraffe I think a lot of things that go on is schools is ridiculous... as you may have gathered by my frequent rants

I've never heard of chatting to the kids being considered as you potentially grooming them and hence banned in schools. That's fucking ridiculous if true; building relationships is really important to get the best out of kids.

I haven't heard of this, would be interested if you could point me to where i could watch it. I have been involved in educational exchanges with scandinavia, most recently hosting visiting Danish teachers, and have been to Finnland twice. Once Helsinki, once much further North in a very remote area.

it also has a lot less pressures on teachers