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Secondary education

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Bring back secondary moderns?

82 replies

user1471516728 · 13/09/2016 12:46

OK alternative tack on the grammar school debate. Assuming 80% of children would attend secondary moderns (not comprehensives) after a full roll-out of grammar schools, why would that be a great idea for those in the 80%?

OP posts:
PettsWoodParadise · 13/09/2016 22:00

I failed the eleven plus and never was made to feel a failure. I like the current idea of TM's for those who prove themselves of being able but failed at 11 to move into a grammar at 14 as that may have given me a route out of being ridiculed for liking learning. I loved my sixth form as when I joined as those who didn't want to be in formal learning had left. I had friends I kept in touch with who were finally happy to be out of school doing courses they wanted to do or were working. That sounds shock horror but different schools and different paths suit different children and some develop interests at different ages so I see the new proposals in a positive light.

BlueGazebo · 13/09/2016 19:27

I would like to ask everyone in favour of grammars if they would be happy for their child to fail the 11+? Let's say that they failed by a couple of marks. They might be classed as top 22% rather than the top 20% and therefore not suitable for a different, more academic type of education. Perhaps they excel in one field but are weaker at some subjects. I personally would not be happy if this were my child. I wouldn't want my child to feel like they had failed at the tender age of 11 and feel that their education wasn't as important as the top 20%. I would want them to have the opportunity of being in top sets. I am therefore against grammar schools. But, I am guessing that everyone in favour of grammars must by default be in favour of secondary moderns and therefore must be happy for their children to attend one?

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 13/09/2016 14:20

everyone who thinks grammars are a good thing think so because their kids (or other 'deserving' kids) will get into them yep, pretty much!

user1471516728 · 13/09/2016 14:12

It's a genuine question, does everyone who thinks grammars are a good thing think so because their kids (or other 'deserving' kids) will get into them, or because they think the whole system is better for everyone?

I'm not in a grammar area (although close to the Bucks border so know of it), my kids went to a decent comprehensive and are now at college, I went to a rubbish comprehensive so have no direct experience of the system.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 13/09/2016 12:58

They will be at an advantage because failing is a vital part of learning to win.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 13/09/2016 12:56

Of course, the other answer will be 'life's not fair and you can't make it fair, so we mustn't worry unduly about the 80% for whom we're about to make it deliberately much less fair, I have to worry about my own kids not anyone else's'

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace · 13/09/2016 12:55

Well, it wouldn't, clearly. I'll tell you what will get said though:
~ they can have lots of focused teaching because the staff will have the time and resources to give it (even though at the moment apparently staff in comprehensives don't spend time or money on the top 20% anyway, so I'm not sure where the slack will come in)
~ they won't feel embittered and jealous of the top 20% and resentful of their own relatively tiny abilities (because the top 20% being taken off to a different place will certainly make them feel better about that!), and so they won't have to waste their little arms throwing chairs at the bright kids in the refectory.
~ they can spend lots of time Learning Valuable Vocations.

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