Petition against grammar school expansion

Guardian article www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/08/grammar-schools-may-brexit-divisive

Lol this is one of the most redicilious things I've ever seen in here.

article

It's not a choice though!!! Not as simple as that.

MaQueen Some kids might be highly able in only one subject but weak in others and therefore need to have access to both top and middle sets - the gifted mathematician who cannot spell or the dyslexic writer for example There was an article in the Guardian recently by a journalist who said he would have failed the 11+. He was poor at maths and Science and yet "world class" at History.

You cannot separate the academic from the non academic by a test at age 11. Many able children will fail by one or two marks - would you mind if that were your child? I would. I wouldn't want my child to be branded a failure at 11. It would therefore be wrong of me to say it's fine for other people's children. Yes, some kids will be better served by a more vocational education but this shouldn't be decided by one dodgy test at the age of 11.

Let's be open minded! Come on! You are not being serious!
Everybody's experience is different, we are all different!
The petition is not helpful in my opinion sounds very grudge holding.
Sorry.

I will be signing, on the basis that some children are late blossomers. It is grossly unfair that such children should be written off at 10/11. Yes, some children are not academic, and more suited to vocational/technical courses - and there's nothing wrong with that - but that is not always apparent so young. I believe in lifelong learning and opportunity, not pigeon-holing at a young age. The need to allow more academic children the opportunity to learn at a faster pace can be perfectly well provided by streaming within schools. As far as I can see the reintroduction of grammar schools will be a regressive step.

But we are assuming that English and maths are the only subjects that are worth anything. Some in grammar schools might be amazing at other subjects, but won't get the chances that comps give them. Also, we are talking about choice as if it's accessible to everyone. Lots of communities only have one school. No choices there. One school for all.

NO THANKS!
My personal experience and opinion about Grammar Schools very positive.
YES please to more CHOICE!
YES please to more Grammar Schools places.
Good luck to you all.

All schools should have a selective stream. In a way the comps that 'band' (such as Wandsworth) effectively already do.

I won't be signing the petition as I think all children should have the right to selective education. Many of the highly regarded and high achieving comprehensives are 'selective' in a different way based on location.

Pro well, obviously some children are far more intelligent than others. In the same way that some children are far more musical, artistic, athletic, gregarious etc.

It's just silly to pretend otherwise. Children, themselves, usually have a damned good idea of where they 'rank' in their class, based on how 'clever' they are.

I'm fine about streaming within schools.
A big problem with complete separation of buildings and premises is that it reduces opportunities by narrowing the scope of types of education that each institution can offer. That really is putting kids into narrow one-size-fits-all all boxes.

I know a lady who was in the last intake for the girl's grammar school in our town. She often tells a story, that she wanted to study hairdressing but wasn't allowed ("too clever"). She's not laughing at her foolish younger self, she's still peeved that she was denied opportunities & a full range of choices.

MaQueen, you are right, but no one will admit it.

Socialists want to deny that some children and people are more intelligent than others.

BlueGazebo it isn't that "20% get a better education". It is that the 20% get a level, speed and intensity of education that is right for them.

A shed load of children aren't remotely academic, and never will be.

Thank you- signed. So fed up with this plan.
Wouldn't want my kids in a grammar and wouldn't want them to have to face the pressure of the test.
Who are we to deem which subjects/ pathways that pupils follow are better than others. Comprehensives offer ALL CHILDREN opportunities in academic and vocational subjects.

I strongly agree with Panda's point.

Otherwise I'm bemused by the strange thinking on here. Mumsnetters are very quick to shout that their precious snowflake must be treated individually, except when it comes to schools, when they need to all be shoe-horned into a one-size-fits-all straitjacket!

Why deny opportunities to those children that would benefit from them? However, I would also like to see the other side of this, and have the Technical Colleges and the like reopened, for the many children who would benefit from learning a trade rather than pursuing academia. This is particularly important now the the idiots hard of thinking have voted to exclude us from our main source of qualified tradespeople.

what bits of what TMay has announced do you think sound very different from existing or historical grammar schools

She has ruled out a return to secondary moderns and has suggested all schools might be able to select. Not sure how that works but we haven't seen the detailed proposals yet.

The plans for children to be able to join at 14 and 16 are different from old grammar schools. When I was at school if you failed the 11+ it was almost impossible to move to grammar school later.

She has talked about grammar schools taking students from non-selective schools for some subjects.

There will apparently be a requirement for selective schools to admit a large proportion of pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds or sponsor a non-selective school in a poor area.

All these sound very different to the way grammar schools worked when I was a child. I want to see detailed proposals before I pass judgement.

This issue seems to be slipping under the radar due to all the grammar school hoo ha.

I'm much more concerned about the proposed new religious school and their 100% religious quota.
All religious schools should be done away with.
A very regressive step from our religious PM that goes against all advice.

If the two academies round here turn into grammars as it says they would be encouraged to then the kids who aren't top scoring and wouldn't pass 11 plus but still capable of B and C would be forced into the other two awful schools.

What happens to kids already in the school when it converted who aren't top scoring ?

Even these independents don't get results as high as many Southern state schools.

Because of their demographics. Grammar schools won't be a magic fix.

Nope,i'm happy with the idea.Might give lots of kids some choice other than the rubbish local comp. Which lets down everyone ,whether you're bright or not.To get decent schooling here you have to pay massively.Even these independents don't get results as high as many Southern state schools.
Rural county with one Grammar that now restricts access by postcode.

Signed....

@prh: what bits of what TMay has announced do you think sound very different from existing or historical grammar schools?

TMay said something about tests that couldn't be studied for: I think experiments have already been done to try to achieve tutor-proof tests, & they aren't working so far.

TMay seems to be talking about banding, so instead of the highest (eg) 10% of all scores, it would be highest 10% of scores by bands (? socioeconomic background): what appeal would parents have if they thought they had been placed in the wrong SE background?

It sounds like rigid entry points, at start of yrs 7, 10 or 12. Why? Why not at any point, and will the entrance be based only on spaces available, in which case how will kids who don't do well enough in grammar get kicked out, will there be a set attrition rate each year?

Signed.

Make ALL schools grammar schools. Why should 20% get a better education than the rest? It's wrong to brand a child a failure at age 11. Is anyone in favour of secondary moderns? Anybody in favour of grammar schools should be equally in favour of secondary moderns and equally happy for their child to attend either school. Some children need to be in top sets for some subjects and lower subjects for others.