Secondary Modern provision v Comprehensive schools

School terminology can get very confusing. There are comprehensives that still have Grammar as part of their title and schools that effectively are secondary moderns but call themselves comprehensives. Then there are schools that are officially secondary moderns such as Wellington in a wealthy part of the country. www.wellington.trafford.sch.uk/exam-results/2051.html. You can see from this results table that over 50% of those sitting Triple Science get an A or A* - so hardly a school where all the children are academically incapable.

The reason the whole debate is so divisive is that there is a ferocious attachment among certain sections of the political classes ( and some of the public) to the idea of grammar schools per se, which seems impervious to any contrary evidence or reasoned debate.

What on earth have you been reading OP - your questions suggest you've looked at something that describes the secondary moderns of 50 years ago! Those sort of school don't exist nowadays!

Just out of interest, IAmTheGreatest, why do we need more super selectives? If there are more the competition for them will drop and they will become like trad grammars! Top sets in good comps offer a fast paced broad curriculum.

Do you think that in principle it is important to remove a percentage of high achievers and put them somewhere else?

Personally I would look at providing a wider range of provision for children who do not thrive in a typical secondary school environment, whatever their ability.

some people who pass the 11+ actively choose to go to the comps instead (those who need support in other areas or who fast-paced grammars may not suit) As well as very high achievers who do not even take the 11+, for a whole variety of reasons - they have a good comp on their doorstep, the super-selective would require a long journey, the parents prefer a faith place, or make an ideological decision, or who may not even know that a super selective exists or is a possibility, or known that aged 10 their child might be a contender.

But Tiggy is right - it would seem that super selectives have little impact on the comps on the area, either in removing a cohort of bright kids, or, crucially, in determining the breadth and depth of curriculum.

Schools called Secondary Moderns don't actually exist any more. In selective areas (e.g Kent) I understand that the non-grammars are called 'high schools', or community schools. Secondary Moderns were a feature when there was a two-tier exam system: O Levels and GCSEs, however, at least high schools now teach the same GCSE curriculum.

I have seen MN parents say that high school students are not offered the option to do more than one MFL. Latin is beloved of many grammars, but may well be more rare in high schools.

So does one day, in the life of a summer born boy, for example, which sends them to one type of school or another, determine outcomes for their future? Well, for a child who is a bit of a late starter, such as your summer born boy, who may well have gone on to be a classicist at Oxford, yes, almost certainly.

On the other hand, for a child who is practical, determined, ingenious and keen to learn vocational skills and get out earning in a skilled trade (the new sort as well as the trad ones), hopefully a Comp, as well as a high school, can offer a good range of BTECS, and have the facilities to do so.

You can read about the old secondary moderns here

Very few areas of the UK still have secondary modern schools OP and so any data on such schools that you can find will only be on a relatively small number of schools so not that reliable statistically.
For children who are academically able but with additional needs, I would say that the best option is a comp but one with good support for SEN and pastoral care and where they cater for bright children with additional needs.
The main advantage of a comp is that they cover the whole range of abilities and most do group the children for each subject according to ability. If children are placed in an incorrect group aged 11, then it's usually relatively easy to move them from one group to another but if a "bright" child takes the 11+ and ends up at the secondary modern, it is very very difficult for them to be moved to a grammar school later on.
I wouldn't be too concerned about the type of school though - there are good (and bad) schools of different types in most areas of the country. Your best bet is to look at the individual schools and ask key questions to find out whether they would cater for your dcs needs.

Sorry, to be precise, some feel state schools should not select on ability. About 10% attend fee paying schools, many of which select on ability.

Yes all same funding and same stuff as you list.

There is the angst because some feel that schools should not select on ability.

They all have to follow the same curriculum really as schools are measured in the same way.

The only real difference is the intake; secondary moderns are in areas where the most able will have been roughly creamed off by the grammar schools. Otherwise, no real difference; same qualifications available, help with university entrance etc.