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Original poster

School appeal help

33 replies

Mumofmanychores · 09/07/2016 21:37

I've submitted an in year secondary school appeal for yr10 and wandering what information I should be asking for.

I've recieved the statement from the school stating their reasons why they cannot admit another pupil.

  • Overcrowding which can lead to stress
  • Increase of workload for the teacher in assessments and monitoring work
  • amount of time teacher can devote to each pupil will diminish
  • access to computers

They have highlighted that the governing body have said class sizes are to large in science, drama and technology

Circulation is a problem at lesson change times and 4 science classrooms can only fit 20 children.

Now the school was knocked down and rebuilt but according to them it was built smaller then what it originally was. They say they are 160 over pan however their figures of what their pan should be is different and lower to what's on their funding agreement.

Other than the statement I have recieved nothing else. I thought maybe they would have broken down how many are in each year etc. They have mentioned that I will recieve a school statement from the La. Will it be Included in this.

OP posts:
t4gnut · 12/07/2016 15:52

Funding agreements have no real relevance. They are lag funded census data. So for example 2016/17 funding is based on the number on role on x date in 2015. You aren't going to garner any insight from funding.

Personally I think fixating on numbers on role is a red herring - if they were under PAN for that year group he'd have been given a place,.

Focus on making a case why he should be admitted there, and why that school, and only that school, can provide him with what he needs - be it specific subject, interest, extracurricular activity etc.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 12/07/2016 14:32

My ds is moving from independent to state school so will be in year 10 in Sept. He has already broken up from school last week and has no school space for Sept. Awaiting for LA to find a school as none available in our borough or local area.

The school we are appealing is our nearest, one of the subjects he likes is only offered at this school although all other subjects are offered everywhere. We moved to the area last year and all the children from the area, including the local sports clubs he attends football, tennis and athletics all attend this school. Ds is very sporty have provided letters from the school and clubs as this school specialises in sports. Along with a doctors letter naming the recommended school for a medical condition being treated for. He also needs to be in a school in our borough in order to be accessed and treated as they only visit those in schools in the borough.

I thought by appealing I have nothing to loose. What's the likeness of being offered this school by the fap. That's the situation we are in.

OP posts:
Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 12/07/2016 14:19

Class sizes or any other information regarding numbers have been given other than the school capacity is 1550. They say they have 1710 on roll. 1097 in years 7-22 and 613 in sixth form. The latest funding agreement I have seen is 2014 for capacity of 1676 for years 7-11 and sixth form 613.
From What I know intake has been always 210 per year in which they divide them into 8 forms. They have said they have 160 pan some things don't add up.

They had a bulge class last Sept for yr 7. They have 215 in the current yr 9 year group so 5 over pan. SEN currently stand at 53 in year 9 with 14 are fully statemented. Class sizes vary but they like to stick between 26 and 28. Although they have said that they cannot fit more than 30 on the class

OP posts:
catslife · 12/07/2016 10:16

Surely for a Y10 appeal the numbers for Technology and drama are only relevant if the OPs child is taking one of these subjects at GCSE? At most schools these will be optional for this year group.
Just checked with my dd and she has done Science GCSEs in a class size of 25 pupils so am not sure why this school has classrooms that they claim can only take 20 in a new building. Yes there is a minimum area per pupil but I think this is only advisory not compulsory.
I agree that moving at Y10 isn't ideal but sometimes people have to move due to changes in circumstances. Is it the case that all local schools are full for Y10 for example and this is your nearest one? Are they the only school that offer the GCSE subjects your child is taking? Try to focus on the positive aspects that support your appeal.

t4gnut · 12/07/2016 09:03

As above concentrate not on trying to unpick the schools position, but on why your child needs to go there as opposed to a n other school with an available space - because if year 10 was under PAN whoever is next on the waiting list would be offered the place.

What is it this school offers that meets the needs of your child that a n other school cannot.

BoneyBackJefferson · 11/07/2016 22:09

The number of children in technology classes is an advisory number set by DATA, which gives number of pupils by square footage of room size.

It is often lower than other classes, mainly due to dangerous tools and the need for vices and such like.

admission · 11/07/2016 21:51

There are two issues for you to consider here. The first is that by year 10 your child will have started GCSE courses and swapping schools at this time is fraught with issues about whether you can get the same courses and the same syllabuses for your child. You do need to think carefully about this.
In terms of the appeal, the statement is, as PRH says, absolutely standard and just says enough for the panel to accept there is prejudice to the school. So you need to focus on your personal reasons as to why only this school is appropriate for your child in your appeal.
The issue around the PAN is interesting and different LAs have slightly different takes on this situation. There is no doubt that the PAN is set for each yearly cohort when they enter the school in year 7 and that the PAN stays with the year group as it rises through the school. So it is quite possible for there to be a PAN in year 7 in September 2016 which is lower than the PAN of the year 10 cohort when they entered the school in year 7. In your situation they are saying the school has been rebuilt and is now for a lower number of pupils than for the old building. You can argue this both ways, the PAN stays at the original level until the year group leaves at the end of year 11 or that being realistic given that it is smaller school the school should only be expected to admit to the new lower PAN. My personal view is that if the school, as an Academy, have not been sensible and got the funding agreement changed to the lower PAN then it is perfectly reasonable for you to argue that they are not full in the year group until they reach the original PAN, especially as they appear to have been able to cope with this number throughout the 4 years the higher PAN has been in operation. The funding agreement confirms this.
That will be an interesting one for the panel to decide.

prh47bridge · 11/07/2016 09:13

That sounds like a fairly standard case to refuse admission to me.

You should ask for the number in each year since they haven't provided that information. If any years are over PAN that will help your case.

Have they said what the actual class sizes are in science, drama and technology? If not you should ask. The answer may show that the governors are being unrealistic.

If they've mentioned safety it would be worth asking if they have had any accidents attributable to overcrowding in the last 3 years. The answer is almost certainly no.