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Original poster

School appeal help

33 replies

Mumofmanychores · 09/07/2016 21:37

I've submitted an in year secondary school appeal for yr10 and wandering what information I should be asking for.

I've recieved the statement from the school stating their reasons why they cannot admit another pupil.

  • Overcrowding which can lead to stress
  • Increase of workload for the teacher in assessments and monitoring work
  • amount of time teacher can devote to each pupil will diminish
  • access to computers

They have highlighted that the governing body have said class sizes are to large in science, drama and technology

Circulation is a problem at lesson change times and 4 science classrooms can only fit 20 children.

Now the school was knocked down and rebuilt but according to them it was built smaller then what it originally was. They say they are 160 over pan however their figures of what their pan should be is different and lower to what's on their funding agreement.

Other than the statement I have recieved nothing else. I thought maybe they would have broken down how many are in each year etc. They have mentioned that I will recieve a school statement from the La. Will it be Included in this.

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admission · 20/07/2016 12:27

The positive you should take from the figures is that there are obviously appeals and some are successful, so it is back to getting as strong a personal case as it possible.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 19/07/2016 23:44

So I have been given figures regarding my appeal.

Total excluding sixth form is 1096
The pan from yr 7 - 11 is 210
Eight tutor groups in each year except year 7 who have 9 due to bulge class.

Year 7 - 246 - sen 51
Year 8 - 212 - sen 51
Year 9 - 213 - sen 45
Year 10 - 212 sen - 45
Year 12 - 214 - sen 39

Yr 10 have approx 26-27 per tutor class
From yr 10 there are 21 subjects in total range from 13 - 30 in class. Top sets have 30. Math, science and English there are 9 classes. All the other option subjects have a minimum of 13 and a maximum of 24.

I know I shouldn't focus too much on pan and more on my personal case however is there anything there that's useful. They are over pan in every year group and have been for the last 3 years.

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Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 19/07/2016 23:29

First things first the Fap decision. After speaking to the one who deals with the fap panel it was noticed that it was best to go back to his old school. And the school appealing for couldn't have been accepted due to already having one accepted under this panel this academic year. They have said if I have good reason it could be referred back to the panel for a further decision which obviously they could upheld their original decision.

Now the school I'm appealing for in the current year group of my ds had 1 admitted under fap in 2014, 3 in 2015 and 1 in 2016. 2 Children have left since then so now 2 over pan. When the panel meet in Sept is it possible to have this school as an option as it would be a new academic year so none would have been admitted yet. Have I got anything to loose by referring it back to the panel.

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tiggytape · 16/07/2016 09:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 16/07/2016 08:17

Also will his space be kept open at the allocated school until after the outcome of the appeal. Because the appeal is 3 days after the children go back in Sept. I don't really want to be using uniform for the allocated school for a few days then to buy another set if my appeal is successful. It's also unsettling attending one school for a few days or possibly a week I and then start another.

I'm the only one appealing on the day so will I be given a decision on the day if not how long does it take

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Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 16/07/2016 08:10

So I'm sending a letter to admissions requesting further info for my appeal as nothing in terms of figures have been sent. This is my draft email. Is there anything else you think I should ask for and is there a time frame they need to provide this info for.

In order to assist me with my appeal. I would be greatful if you could provide me with the following information relating to September 2016

A breakdown of the number of pupils in each year group 7 - 13 and how many tutor groups in each year group

How many pupils with a Statement of Special Educational Needs or Education Health Care Plan in each year group.

In year 10, the number tutor groups and how many students in each tutor group.

In Year 10 the subjects that are taught and how many pupils in each subject group/class.

How many sets are in math, English and science in Year 10 and how many pupils in each set.

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Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 16/07/2016 08:05

According to the decision letter it stated it was best for him to go back to his previous school.

Now the situation with the options is that one of the options his wanted to do have no space. His options were computer science, art, religious studies and Pe. There is no space in Pe and religious studies is not an option in the allocated school.

If this is where he is going to be I guess I need to start thinking about the positives and the strengths and getting him to looking at the school in a new sight. After all things coukd have changed and he may find after a while he may even like it. Positive thinking. Thanks for all advice

OP posts:
OddBoots · 16/07/2016 06:34

It looks like the offered school is the only realistic choice. I know it will be hard but he will have to keep focused on the fact it is only 2 years (less than that really as they leave Y11 in June) and if he puts in all his effort he will have a better choice of destination afterwards.

Even though he has been there before and didn't like it he is older now and it does change things somewhat in those GCSE years when he will have been able to drop some subjects and have more time to focus on the subjects he enjoys.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 15/07/2016 13:07

Stressed is an understatement right now. Unfortunately all schools in the borough are heavily oversubscribed with many having bulge classes. Ds year and the 2 years below have been a struggle so all schools at present are over pan in years 7-9. He has been on the waiting list for the last 2 years so I'm starting to feel like there is no hope

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Blu · 15/07/2016 09:47

It all sounds very stressful, OP,
By waiting lists I mean I would put yourself on the waiting list for every school you would consider a good or good enough option. While still pursuing the appeal, and still accepting the offer made. You can do all 3 without disadvantaging yourself.
Not sure where you are but in London people are highly mobile and many families move over the summer. Also some of those ahead of you on the waiting list will also be on lists at other schools, and might take a place elsewhere.

Fingers crossed for you.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 15/07/2016 09:31

It's too late because he is in year 10 in Sept. If a place came up in nov/Dec he would have already started working towards his gcse and then you have the whole will he get his same subject choices.

Also he is currently third on the waiting list and they are currently 5 over so 6 children would have to leave to create an available space and providing no one jumps up the waiting list in front of us 8 people would have to leave for him to get in.

What's the likeness of that happening especially in such a short time frame.

The only realistic option in is winning this appeal.

How do you try and motivate a child to go to a school and put the effort in his work when he doesn't want to be there. His been there, tried it, hated it, left and now his going back

OP posts:
Blu · 14/07/2016 23:31

Why is it too late for waiting lists? If any family moves away from the area over the summer then places may come up.
I would accept the place offered, go on the list for schools you like, and appeal your favorite.

tiggytape · 14/07/2016 18:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 14/07/2016 17:55

Well the school offered was under t e fair access so I guess that is where he will be going unless we win the appeal. Too late for waiting lists now as he is starting year 10 in Sept. Would not be advisable to change schools again after Sept with gcse commencing even if a place came up later in the year which h is very unlikely.

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tiggytape · 14/07/2016 17:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

t4gnut · 14/07/2016 15:34

The local authority is obliged to offer a place - and as you're outside the normal admissions rounds anywhere popular will in all likelihood be full, so they'll probably start with proximity. There is no obligation on the local authority to match his aptitudes, preferences or personality to a school. If there is a specific social need or SEN/EHCP requirement then that does dictate the offer.

You can go on multiple waiting lists and appeal for a place at a school you want.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 14/07/2016 15:04

So I rang the La today and a meeting was held yesterday and a letter is in the post with the outcome although they didn't know what school has been offered apparently.

So I'm guessing it's a formal offer.

What information do they use when making this decision as they know nothing about my son other than his school report which only lists grades. The head of year also mentioned that it wouldn't be in his best interest being somewhere he really doesn't want to be.

So is this the final decision. Can it be changed.

It's now going to make the appeal even more harder to win as they are both single sex and specialises in sport

OP posts:
admission · 14/07/2016 14:50

Any official offer is coming from the Local Authority, as your child has no school place. I would go back and say to the head of year, is this a formal offer because it really needs to come from the LA and see what reaction you get.

t4gnut · 14/07/2016 09:17

I think that's the key question - if it is an official offer via the LA then you can't risk turning it down as they will then have discharged their duty in finding you a school place.

Even if they were to offer it does not prevent you continuing with your appeal.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 13/07/2016 22:27

So I was offered a school today of the record. Not one from my list. Head of year contacted me today asking whether I wanted to accept and I had 2 days to decide so he could let school know and get paperwork sorted.

Head of year recognised ds name from the list which I believe is the fap list. The fair access protocol meeting is next week.

Has the list gone to all schools and do I need to accept considering its an off the record offer. I believe they are offering a place as he attending the school briefly in year 7. I dont really want him to attend and i haven't officially been offered this place by the La.

If I say no to the head of year what will happen at the fap meeting.

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prh47bridge · 12/07/2016 22:11

Would the fact that he is currently out of school and has no school place add any strength to our appeal

I would expect the LA to come up with an offer of a place before the hearing. If they don't that will definitely add strength to your appeal.

Original poster
Mumofmanychores · 12/07/2016 21:49

Thanks for the advice. Would the fact that he is currently out of school and has no school place add any strength to our appeal. As a child missing out on education and gcse could be harmful to his education.

The 6th form is big, according to their admissions criteria they accept 340 students into year 12. The 6th form is not separated from the school so all the facilities are shared.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 12/07/2016 21:13

To be honest a school will accept as many pupils as they can because they get money per pupil

That simply isn't true. If it was there would be far fewer successful appeals. Indeed, I've come across cases where the school has specifically tried to keep numbers artificially low.

Lilly948204 · 12/07/2016 19:07

To be honest a school will accept as many pupils as they can because they get money per pupil, if they had space for your child I'm sure they would accommodate them.

admission · 12/07/2016 16:59

The 6th form is massive in relation to the number in year groups 7 to 11. Based on 210 PAN I would expect the level of 6th formers to be 300 to 420, not 613. Having said that it will make little difference to the appeal as year 12 and 13 do not really figure in the appeal. It is all about what is the real PAN.
Given that in the most optimistic of circumstances of a PAN of 210, they are already 5 over the top, you really do need some very good personal circumstances to aid getting a place.