UKMT Junior Maths Challenge - question

WilfSell normally Year 5 and Year 6 at primaries do the Primary Maths Challenge.

Despite the name, the Junior Maths Challenge is aimed at up to Year 8, so you can rightly be proud if he got a bronze certificate in that.

Don't worry - Twitter has the answer I'm looking for: twitter.com/UKMathsTrust/status/879331423370584064

Now just need to get DS to chase school for his result!

Anyone know if the Junior Kangaroo results have been sent out yet?

The threshold has been published, here - 89, so does that means the results are either already out or at least imminent?

Can I just have a little proud moment reviving this thread? Cos I know you'll understand when I do a little dance because DS2 just did his first JMC in Y6 (state primary - they put a little group of able mathematicians in from Y5 and 6 and they all - from Y6- but one got a certificate) and got a silver certificate. He had no idea how to answer many of the second half questions but he had a good go! We looked at a few past papers beforehand but the school just chucked them into it this year.

No idea if his secondary school will carry it on though. Can he do the next one independently?

For the JMC, there is a certificate of participation which the school can print off from their website, so it is down to the school whether or not they do this.

For the JMO their website says for the ones who do not get a merit or distinction:

those who qualified automatically for the JMO via the JMC receive a Certificate of Qualification

Do the students get a certificate for taking part?

Thank you noble.
I have listened to your advice you gave me in the past, and doing more of nrich kind of stuff with him when I can. And also he started learning musical instrument, so he isn't obsessed about maths like before.
But he does take lead on what he wants to learn normally(since I've got no clue about maths), and I thought AoPS was great, since it gives him different way of thinking.
mrz gave me the link for test for old NC levels 6/7/8 few month ago. He tried them, and he is already capable of some of the stuff from Lv8.
I really wish there was someone I can talk to in RL, about what to do with him.

I know we discussed it on the G&T thread. I think you need to start going around private schools and saying 'this is what my DS can do, what can you offer him?'. He needs to spend time with someone who is an expert in the sort of maths he is learning, which, TBH is unlikely to be a primary teacher. Videos are all very well, but mathematical discussion is better.

Noble, I am very aware of the problem. He find maths like a puzzle. He gets it and wants more. I really don't know how to deal with it, to be honest.

irvine how old is your DS? 8?
Having had a quick look at some of the videos, they do use some different notation, vocabulary and methods to the UK, but I suspect your DS would be able to cope with switching between the two.
The main problem if your DS is working your way through them, then he is covering maths which is way beyond the primary curriculum and is touching on higher GCSE stuff (simplifying surds for example). At some point, and soon, you are going to have to decide some sort of plan of action for him. Continuing with primary maths at school and doing these videos at home isn't going to work.

Thank you, GHGN. My ds loves maths, but I don't have any background of maths, so sometimes I tend to freak out.(And English isn't even my first language, which makes it even worse.)
I will keep your comment in my mind, and see how it goes. Thank you.

The ones that I've seen on AoPS are very well explained and conceptually correct. They are better than many teachers' explanation.

However, they might be different to some teachers' understanding of the concept so pupils might be confused easily. it sometimes creates a problem. The child might think that his/her teacher does not have good subject knowledge and will doubt them and do not trust their teaching. This will create problems in class.

The other scenario is sometimes, teachers might tell pupils somethings but when they go further with Maths, they realise that is not true anymore. For example, when teaching surds, we teach them that they can not square root a negative number. it is correct in that context but if they go on to do Further Maths, they then realise that indeed they can. it does not mean that the teacher does not know his/her stuff but it just wasn't the right time.

I am having the same dilemma at the moment, as a parent but also as a teacher. Do I teach my child correctly and then they might be told something else completely different at school?

Noble, or any other maths teachers, I have a question.
My ds has been hooked on AoPS videos, but I noticed the way they teach some concept is slightly different to more traditional(?) method. I know AoPS is linked with AMC, the US version of UKMT. So are these good ways to expand understanding of maths? Or is it going to confuse the child if knowledge isn't secure?

artofproblemsolving.com/videos/prealgebra

If they don't attempt the questions, they don't lose any points.They only lose marks if they attempt and get it wrong, losing 1m for Q16-20, 2 for Q21 to 25. This is to stop pupils from guessing too much in the last 10 questions and get to the next round undeservedly and then get found out smile
That's very interesting and explains why DS did worse this year than last. I asked him if he answered any of the harder questions and he said that last year, he only answered when he was certain of the answer, but this year, he thought the whole thing was boring, so decided to at least try to attempt to answer the question, even if he wasn't sure, hence him losing points.

I did congratulate him though as one of the values I am trying to install in my children is not to give up when they are not sure and to always try to do their best, so I much rather he scored less having tried than just taking a 'I won't bother' approach.

I have to say I am surprised that any such competition would indeed encourage kids not to at least try to make an effort. It's not about guessing but about taking a risk after doing your best to find the answer.

I'm guessing that was a while ago, or that those kids were in top sets anyway, roguedad.

But anyway, the maths challenges are unlikely to be the competition that's going to spark an interest in a previously disinterested pupil. The kids are herded into a hall for an hour to sit an exam that requires knowledge of the school curriculum. If they were good at that sort of thing, they'd be in the sets that take it.

Gosh noble.. that is really cynical. When I was a maths tutor at Oxford and professor in London I met a worrying number of able mathematicians who had never been recognised as having any talent while at school until a chance change of teacher or competition or project that had caused them to engage their brain. I realise my sampling was from a population that was necessarily a good one, but I'm far from convinced about the talent identification process in schools. I don't have the data to back it up, but experience suggests there is a problem. I'd like to see the net thrown wider and the "good at maths is uncool" culture challenged.

It also depends on the teachers as well. Not many teachers have experience of Maths competitions as students themselves. Very few would have done Olympiad competitions, let alone competing at national level or at the International Maths Olympiad.

In a normal school, there are at most a couple of kids in each year group really have the aptitude, skills and determination to do Olympiad Maths. Teacher's time is limited so they have to prioritise their workload and providing time for a couple of pupils is probably not high in that list.

In other countries, there are specialist school and after school clubs for this kind of thing and pupils are not laughed at because they attend an after school Maths club instead of a sport club.

I see. Thank you, noble.

No. The kid would do really well in tests if the school work is easy and get promoted to top set.

There are undeniably brighter kids in lower sets but the reason they're in lower sets is because they piss about, don't attempt to learn the stuff and their performance in tests is mediocre. They are the sort of kid who are more likely to use the multi-choice answer sheet to draw a penis than display genius and would not engage with it.

Don't forget we also do CATs testing of kids in Y7 to spot the really bright ones. If there's a genius in a lower set, it's not because they are being denied the opportunity to shine.

Are school not allowed to make copies of paper and let children have a go unofficially?

I think it's possible there might be naturally gifted person hiding. If the child's parents aren't interested and have no access to other resources, and school work is too easy and child doesn't know how to put a effort in. Just do what is expected with minimum effort.Teacher assumes the child is average and never give them any challenge. Isn't that possible?

You have no idea whether there is some naturally gifted person hiding somewhere, bored out of their mind with normal classwork and underperforming, who will shine in this test

If they are naturally gifted and bored with normal class work then why are they not in the top set?

You can only enter the challenge in groups of 25, schools have to prioritise that funding for pupils who are most likely to get something out of it.

Thank you!
And I agree with roguedad, that children outside of top set should be allowed to have a go.

Ignore the badly written first part of my last post in favour of the poster before me who put it much more correctly (and eloquently!).

On the 2nd section you only lose marks for an incorrect answer, it for leaving unanswered.

I printed out the olympiad papers, solutions and pupil answers from the last couple of years and gave them to ds1. He looked at the section B questions and was just totally stumped "how do I answer that though?".
He had a look through some of the solutions and pupil answers and has been practicing and is now confident that he can have a go - if I hadn't done this he'd be sitting in doing the paper next week thinking wtaf!! We have also talked about technique, reading all the section b questions and concentrating on the ones he feels he can do etc.
Why on earth the school haven't don't this I have no idea. At the very least they could have emailed parents to let them know the child was invited to take the paper, and given a link to the past papers.

When we started looking at them ds1 read one of the questions and I said so tell me how you'd solve it, and his spoken answer was almost word for word what was written in the model solution. His problem has always been showing his working though! So he's needed input on how and why he needs to do this for these type of questions.

If they don't attempt the questions, they don't lose any points.They only lose marks if they attempt and get it wrong, losing 1m for Q16-20, 2 for Q21 to 25. This is to stop pupils from guessing too much in the last 10 questions and get to the next round undeservedly and then get found out :)

So Q1-15 correct plus 1 later question correct would give them gold, as long as they don't attempt any other questions and get them wrong.