State or private for secondary?

Oh god just seen this was a zombie thread, sorry

We had the same decision and went for vg state, and I'm so glad we did.

I took my son to a rugby match at the weekend vs a top private school (SW London) and at the end I saw a family walk to the car park with their son (from the private school) and the father said 'Do you want to go home in the Aston with me or in the Disco with Mummy?', then looked at me to see if I was blown away with lust.

I have never ever been so glad to have sent our children state! His boy goes to a school we looked at and my god, I'd hate him to have friends from families like that.

I know that's a one-off, and probably not representative, blah blah, but I know of so many other stories (one private school girl going to another's house and asking the mother what the square footage was, for example) that it does make me happy we took our decision.

You need to have a good state alternative though. I'd suffer the awfulness described above if I had to vs a rough state secondary, for example. But I am very very glad.

@CandyCrush77 ZOMBIE thread but I'm curious what you've decided?

Oh and all siblings, Islington or otherwise, are guaranteed a place.

Not quite. A minimum of 20 places go to Islington kids but there's not a maximum number. If the top 65 academic places were all Islington kids then they'd all go, plus the kids in care, plus the siblings. (Though of course it's not in fact the top 65, it's the top 100 and something because they don't all choose to go).
If however the Islington siblings, the kids in care and the Islington academic/musical kids added up to less than 20, then an Islington kid could get in with a lower mark than a non Islington one.
As far as I understand it... It's one of those v tricky put off the uncommitted parent admissions docs.
Either way, it's v hard to get into. However the exam is in sept so you know if there's a reasonable chance of a place well before the caf has to be in and well before the private school exams.

DAO does look tough, I googled it and there are pages and pages of admission criteria. They are nothing if not transparent! Here is what they say about places for Islington children:

16. I understand that 20 places are allocated to Islington children. How are these places allocated?

A minimum of 20 Islington places are allocated in accordance with our oversubscription criteria in number order. Therefore the number of academic ability places that can be offered to Islington children will vary depending on the number of places being offered under our statement, looked after children, sibling, music or staff criteria. The Governors maintain 2 exam result lists in rank order, one for Islington, and the second for all Local Priority Areas. This ensures that a minimum of 20 places overall are allocated to Islington children each year.

www.damealiceowens.herts.sch.uk/admissions/admissions_faqs.html#priorityareas

My impression is that your son would have to be in the top 15 scorers on the 11+ exam for DAO coming from Islington. If he did that, his younger siblings would basically be guaranteed places.

DAO is insanely difficult to get into - I don't know of any child that's got into there and not walked into the privates (and plenty the other way round). It's also a loooooong commute for a 11-year-old. It's very lovely though and very green.

Cleo, I was talking about two of the schools the OP specifically mentioned, City and UCS. Highgate until last year would honour the state offer day, but then decided that although that would be the date by which you had to accept an offer, if you waited that long you might find there weren't any places left. Most of the North London boys' schools (I think Habs, Merchant Taylor etc as far as I know) do respect the fact that parents need to have all the information before laying out huge amounts of money.

I've always heard that Hertfordshire has very good secondary schools.

Coffeeismycupoftea: I'm afraid at a number of schools in London you do have to pay your deposit before national offers day. A friend of mine was in this situation because she didn't want to pay a deposit until she heard from Tiffin, but the preferred private school's deadline was about four or five days earlier. She paid because she couldn't risk losing the place, and in the end it didn't matter because she didn't get a Tiffin offer anyway!

I think it depends on the school and how many they have on the waiting list. The super selectives offer places to the top X% but they know they won't get all of those taken up and they'll still be interested in the ones just below that so will want to offer those children places as fast as possible.

Is moving out of London altogether an option? To commuter-land (assuming you work in London), carefully selected for great schools & lower than London house prices?

Also beware the introduction of fair banding and lottery systems!

These would of course give all London schools a level playing field, promote equality of opportunity and remove the entrenched advantage of those able to spend £££s on moving house to get into "the best" schools.

ps you don't have to pay the deposit for a private school place before the first round offers - most coincide their acceptance date with the 1March (or whenever it is).

I really wouldn't rent next door to a good school. Whatever you think about the morality of doing so (and personally I think it is definitely dubious), it's v v risky. It's very easy for the council to look at your council tax records or GP surgery, see you own a house a mile up the road and count that as your main residence.

I do know dozens of people who've done it and none have been found out. However, councils are getting more vigilant. Camden for example has a fraudulent applications hotline and says this: 'We will not accept a temporary address if you still have a property that was previously used as a home address, nor will we accept a temporary address used solely or mainly to obtain a school place. You may be asked to supply additional information to explain why you are not able to use your permanent address.'

I think the way people view it has changed too. It used to be seen as quite acceptable and parents were very open about it. Now that councils are referring to it as fraud and encouraging people to shop those doing it, it's become unacceptable. Kind of like drink driving.

Naughtyboy, in answer to your question re central. Yes a bit like threads such as this one! It seems to me that it's such a clearly excellent school that it's no need of MN-ification. Your boy is as you say really happy there and has lots of friends .

If you do decide to sell up and move, CandyCrush, you'll need a fallback plan in case they don't get in. You could do the 11+ as well, but remember if you are offered a private school place and want to take it up you will have to pay the deposit before you get the state school offer. However, that will be between £2,500 and £5,000 in all likelihood, and that pales into insignificance if he gets into the top state school and you won't be paying fees.

My understanding is that more and more LAs are clamping down on people who rent near a good school and own another ("real home") property - this is likely explicitly against the rules in some (many?) areas and "only" unethical in other places.

Other people cheating is not a good excuse. And some of the rental demand referred to earlier will have been people who did not own another property, in which case there is no problem.

LOL

Cleo, yes from all I've heard, I think some (not all) all girls' schools can be a nest of vipers and best to give those a swerve. Blimey, I agree with you on something!

CandyCrush, I don't know that I would recommend it!!! All I do know from various estate agents in the Muswell Hill area is that a large number of parents do it and therefore a lot of rental properties become available in October as soon as the children have joined their new schools. They are all trying to get into Fortismere. Sometimes they live only half a mile away from the house they are renting!

Sorry - violent sexual nature ...