Maths help

What he needed was to do AS maths. Extension work and Mentoring schemes are ok, but they don't address the problem of being bored and turned off by the school maths classes. People who don't have children who are really really good at maths don't understand this, and that includes a lot of teachers.

But many people who are really really good at maths and whose DC are really really good at maths actually don't agree with you that jumping up the curriculum is the best way to proceed.

There is plenty wrong with the US system, but when you get to university, you can take very advanced classes if you are ready for them.

A problem with schools pre-teaching first year material is that they typically can't cover all of it, at the right level, and thus students still have to do first year courses at university to get the foundations needed to take more advanced classes. (And as noble points out it's not like lots of teachers would be able to teach university level maths anyhow.)

In reality this is the case in the US system too: at the very top US universities you can't walk into very advanced maths classes without showing you have mastered absolutely all the material from earlier classes. In practice this means that while you might be able to skip out of basic calculus etc via AP you can't jump that many maths classes.

I genuinely do not see that very many students in the UK need to be taught beyond A level maths and further maths, when so few do well on STEP tests based on A level material. Even if you can ace A level papers, this is absolutely no guarantee that you understand the material enough to tackle very challenging STEP 2 and 3 papers. STEP/Olympiads usually suffice to keep even the very top mathematicians engaged and occupied in sixth form.

noble - that is true, especially on the geometry side and inequalities.

Children change. My dd loved maths but now at AS level isn't so bothered about it despite getting 100% in most tests. Why the need to rush forward all the time, use the lesson for chill time so that more concentration can be used in other lessons that aren't so easy.

There are lots of more difficult concepts which aren't on the school curriculum or which are only touched on which could be investigated instead of doing the school stuff early thus guaranteeing that maths in school will always be easy and boring.

I think the higher UKMT levels introduce more difficult non-school theorems which are required for their harder problems. Their stuff is also closer to what actual mathematicians do than school stuff - talking about Olympiad questions here, not the multi-choice challenges.

UKMT involves thinking round problems using maths they already know. AS involves them getting their heads round more difficult concepts in maths. Both are important in skill building for maths.
I have always thought it ridiculous that children, no matter what their ability must go at the speed of the national curriculum. (Nigel Kennedy, stop that Vivaldi and do Twinkle Twinkle on the triangle with the rest of the class) The national curriculum is just a manmade construct where as maths will continue to be fascinating.
Because dd already has a GCSE, secondary do let her do her own thing in maths. Keep going in to school. It sounds like the subject your son is really interested in is a real waste of time at school. Keep going in to school to talk. Have a clear mind you want to get from it the agreement that he can do his own maths in the class. The negotiations in getting this will probably make you well suited for the Diplomatic Service and will not all be done in one meeting. He can then learn at his own pace at home and do questions quietly in his lessons.

@mathsmum314, I think your son needs to learn how to find new challenges for himself. That's actually the true spirit of mathematics: find new questions and try to resolve them. For example on indices he could wonder if it's possible to find a pair of distinct integers x and y so that xy = yx.
It's depressing to see so many students from all levels who have always been spoon-fed by teachers and have no curiosity, no creativity. I have a DS in Y6 who is rather good in maths and I could train him so that he passes his A levels next year but I won't, because it won't help him in his life. Instead I am teaching him to be curious and creative.
Show the "Groundhog Day" movie to your son, if he understands the messages contained in the movie, he will never be bored again.

agreed. If he is a disciplined sort it can work really well. Try him with a problem solvers handbook on that link. It is a brillant starting point for maths comps.

ukmt book shop

UKMT mentoring, their books etc is absolutely perfect for this situation. I can absolutely guarantee, that no matter how good your child is at maths, there is material available for them that will keep them occupied from ukmt.
Going forward with as maths and beyond early does them no favours - it doesn't encourage a deep understanding.

Sorry Noble again, I don't mean to be annoying. I am American, and found the British system to be a bit limiting to my son.

The whole attitude of the top university which told you "not to teach our student uni-level maths because then they'd be bored when they got to university" seems wrong to me. Surely in an ideal world kids should forge ahead, learning as much and as quickly as they want, and a top university should be eager to accommodate and encourage this.

There is plenty wrong with the US system, but when you get to university, you can take very advanced classes if you are ready for them.

Again, I really don't mean to be annoying..

Has the teacher specifically said that your DS can't sit and study his maths book in lesson when he finishes early?

As for the inconvenience of having to teach school kids past A level

It's not about inconvenience. You cannot expect secondary teachers to be able to teach uni level maths. There are not even enough who can teach A-level. Besides, we were specifically told by a top university not to teach our student uni-level maths because then they'd be bored when they got to university

My son is really good at maths and is finding A level a bit dull. He seems to find loads of interesting maths stuff online and also has a couple of good books recommended by the school.

Can your son start with stuff like the Alex Bellos books (Alex in numberland or something) and the Simpsons maths Secrets books? There's one about Fermats Last Theorem that's quite approachable too, I think.

X post with you Noble, you sound very sympathetic, and I don't mean to be so in-your-face with my opinions.

This is just a very frustrating situation for parents, and most schools and teachers don't understand. My son is grown up now, and I am no longer involved, but I really feel for the OP, as the school system really doesn't do well enough for these unusual kids.

The reasons given for kids not to go ahead in maths is usually either it's not good socially or what to do when they don't fit the system (run out of classes). Socially, it isn't great to be 4 or 5 years ahead of the other kids in your maths class; you either dumb yourself down, or run the risk of looking obnoxious or geeky.

As for the inconvenience of having to teach school kids past A level, I think this is like any other SEN situation; the child is entitled to an education which is appropriate to him/her. Children with autism might have a TA; Children with dyslexia are entitled to extra time, a laptop, and a reader/scribe for exams.

I think being able to get 100% in a maths GCSE at age 10 is a comparable SN, and provision should be made for these kids.

claraschu I don't want children to be bored and lose a love of maths, of course I don't, but maths is such a huge subject and the curriculum so narrow that I can't agree that merely accelerating a bright child through the curriculum is the solution to the problem, especially when it will cause other issues.

I've already mentioned the social aspect. However accepting the sixth formers are, the Y10 in their uniform will not be able to interact with them in the same way. Then there's also timetabling. It's highly unlikely that AS maths will run at exactly the same time as Y10 maths so the student will have to be taken out of other lessons to study with Y12, which can affect those subjects which have to be caught up and they then still have to attend Y10 maths and work independently.
Then there's sitting A-levels early and running out of secondary school maths before the end of Y13 which will not look good on university applications.

Then there's the problem that AS maths has got exactly the same indices questions as GCSE. It's not going to challenge a really bright student.

Then there's the point that finding Y9 maths easy doesn't mean that the student can simply skip Y10 and 11. There is the issue of a GCSE which needs to be sat, and I can't see from the OP that the DS has actually learned all the GCSE content, just that the pace of the class is slow.

In other countries, kids can take university level courses in maths. I think the UK educational system could think about what happens to very able maths students. It is really not that great.