Tiffins school, Kingston

DD's school doesn't get involved in league tables. It is one of the few schools now which retains a sibling policy and if the first child gets in subsequent brothers and sisters will be accepted on a lower mark for the 11+. For that reason they are never going to get the same results as totally academically selective schools. However they get their sweeps of A*/A too.

I very much went on my gut feeling when I visited the school. Two years prior to that I would have dismissed it as an option because it did have a reputation for not pushing too hard academically and DD is clever but needs a push in subjects she is not particularly interested in. As one of her teachers at her prep said, "she is so busy enjoying herself at school she sometimes forgets she has to work too."

When I visited the school I just loved it and I knew it would suit her. Academically it is moving up steadily, she's in the top set and doing well. They are giving the required push where it is needed! She also loves all the various extra-curricular activities and has had a wonderful first year. I couldn't be happier.

I think with certain sections of the parent community who make their judgments on schools based on league tables rather than what is right for their child the Tiffins will always have the brand by virtue of the selection process. It is the same with the private schools, some do not see beyond the notional hierarchy that would put for example KCS over KGS but they are both good schools that would enable a bright pupil to do equally well in exams and university entrance, both have pupils who get clean sweeps of As and entry to top courses at top units it is just KCS is able to be more selective and has more of them. In the end though your child will do best where they are happiest and that might be at KGS rather than KCS or indeed Tiffin which was the point I was making to OP*

And speaking of plumbers I actually got a place at my selective grammar via a process called the Thorne scheme. It wouldn't stand up to the appeals process now because it was largely based on teacher assessment but those on the borderline went off for a day of tests and interviews. Along with VR and NVR and interviews (which of course ironically favoured those of us who were bright but teachers had not discerned that because they didn't see beyond our learning difficulties then - and often now) we had to build towers and various tests of physical dexterity to find out whether we would be better suited by a vocational education (with no suggestion that was in any way less valued). Their judgement that I was better suited to academia has been validated subsequently

whatwouldrondo: I think it's a shame that any school is perceived by potential pupils and their parents as cold and discouraging but with 2000 applying maybe they don't feel they have to bother with the PR bit. Private schools are definitely wanting you to like them when you visit but maybe because Tiffin is non-feeing paying and they are over-subscribed they feel the parents are competing to be at the school, rather than the school competing to get the fee-paying parents.

I'd heard Coombe was very good too. I don't know Greycourt. If those schools are getting comparable results maybe Tiffin will not be the must-go-school for too much longer.

By the way I can't be bothered to dig it out at this hour but the top sets at Coombe, Greycourt and the other surrounding outstanding comps actually have very comparable results to Tiffin. Of course getting in to them if you are not lucky enough to live nearby and don't have the resources to move house can be impossible, another reason the local indies actually educate 30% of the children in the local boroughs, rather than the 7% nationally

I'd heard the same about Tiffin - that children were tutored heavily for about two years to go there, and I would not have wanted to put DD through that. Comments from people who knew the school well made it all sound rather joyless. I'm sure lots of pupils have fun there and it's a great school but nothing I heard made me want DD to go there.

cleo My DD found the staff cold and discouraging too, and she was not coming from a Prep. Presumably with 2000 applying whether they are nice or not, they don't bother although she felt they were positively trying to intimidate / discourage her. But as others have said with plenty of parents trigger happy on the appeals procedure whatever selection process they use it has to be measurably fair and so based on scores without any element of subjective judgement.

I just asked because most Oxbridge parents I know want their children to follow in their footsteps.

I think plumbing is an excellent idea. They all seem to make a fortune, and look at the guy who started Pimlico Plumbers!

Not really. I want them to go wherever they want to go whether that is to be a plumber or go to university or whatever.

Actually the way in which Tiffin had allowed their VR and NVR to become predictable and therefore tutorable meant that they were not getting the cleverest pupils. Selective indies and employers use VR and NVR as one measure in their selection process (Wimbledon High have actually gone over to it entirely with the aim off making theirs a process based on ability and not tutoring) but they invest a lot of money in tests that are developed to be unpredictable and therefore a more reliable test of ability. Tiffin, probably because of financial constraints given they have thousands applying, let them become predictable and by all accounts subjecting your child to hours / months / years of boring repetitive practise with limited educational value, except maybe learning to do boring repetitive tasks, you could improve the score. Of course the exceptionally bright could score highly without that but tales of pupils whose initial raw scores were only in the top 10% getting up to the required 3% with mind numbing repetition suggest that it was not a reliable test of ability. And the results at GCSE and A level ought to be a lot better if they were truly recruiting the top 3 %. Add In that lots of parents like Amdai either don't apply or decide not to send their child there because they are not prepared to subject their child to that and /or prefer the atmosphere / facilities at the indies and you have a lot of parents at those schools making financial sacrifices to give their children that opportunity.

I find it very sad having gone to a very selective grammar in the days before the tutoring industry got hold and known many friends from disadvantaged backgrounds who with the benefit of having their ability recognised via the selection process went on to achieve great things (including a couple f household names) From what my DCs tell me of the Tiffins there is a very different atmosphere there these days and those pupils moving from Tiffin to the indies at 16 find the atmosphere far more positive and inspiring.

Do you want your DCs to go to Teddy Hall, SADH?

Well my dh went there, but it was almost 20 years ago. It does stand out to me some of the things he encountered were very different from the learning experience of my average (shitty) comprehensive school. I think he was very lucky to have that education, and for free. I'm guessing an average comprehensive is not what you are conflicting over though.

Teddy's Hall. By the way. In case you were wondering

thinking about it I do tend to know which people went to oxbridge. they always mention it somehow.
like those who went to any well known school, they bring it up. a lot.

I may be ungallant but I didn't say you were weird, I said the situation of such knowledge was weird. And it is.

You are right, Needmoresleep. People often do say, "when I was at Oxford," and in a small class you know all the schools where your DCs are off to, and their siblings too. If mums have been to the same school, or the same type of school (convent in my case), that would tend to come out as well. You get to know everyone very well over seven years.

Of course Boris went to Slough Comprehensive. I remember a friend of mine telling an acquaintance that that was where he'd been to school. She came to tell me she couldn't believe it. She had been convinced he'd been privately educated ......

I wasn't the poster who quoted the Oxbridge parents. I was just being curious about the school.

Thank you for explaining about distance and twins.

I will also explain to my friend whose daughter didn't get in that it was strictly on results. She just got the impression from her contacts with the school that they seemed a bit discouraging. Maybe they didn't mean to be and she misinterpreted them.

SaHD. I am not weird, but you might be ungallant.

Lots of all class parties adn relatively small classes, so you knew everyone. And a bit like how Londoners all know which (suburban) school Boris Johnson went to, but don't know which London school Sadiq Khan attended.

Thinking about it, its odd. Oxbridge people tend to say " when I was at Oxford..." rather than "when I was at University..." which then seemed to lead onto a chorus of "which college..", in the same way as others (or more often, the same people) would say "when DH was at Eton..." I did not go to Oxbridge and was struck by this, so a bit like Cleo, I was interested. But it was only one class in one year, and would not happen again as London has become a lot more international.

The same applied to Paulina's. I might know which schools friends who attended London Day Schools went to, simply because it came up when we were considering senior schools and often after having known them for a while. They probably do not know where I went. However five mums in DDs year at the same school were Paulina's. I was not close to any, but somehow it would get mentioned. (And remembered.)

Presumably that is part of the private state debate. That you have an answer when asked "what school..."

ha i don't know that one. whoever is nearest the front door ?!

Ah, thanks amidawish, brilliant that they actually have to go down to twins. Suppose it was two kids in flats in the same building?

Cleo, I don't know how it works in your scenario but as sahd says it is illegal for them to choose. It will not be done on the basis of 'she went to a prep and can afford to go elsewhere'. And agree with sahd, how on earth did you know that re Oxbridge. I have no idea where parents at dcs' school went to uni and anyone who boasted to me about it would be first against the wall when I am queen

state schools can't choose.
if 10 girls with identical marks for 3 spaces were left, they have to go on distance.
and if 2 of the girls are twins in the same house with identical marks then they both have to get a place.

I'd love to know which school had at least one Oxbridge-educated parent. I'm just being nosy. I don't have any children to sign up!

No school can discriminate, but schools can choose. If they have 10 girls with identical marks and only three places left they have to choose.